Stihl

[shibumiseeker]

If you do what shibumiseeker proposes with one of those I forsee it taking multiple separating sessions to get the most true gas that you can, or wasting quite a bit of the gas.

I've not found it taking more than one session to achieve the results I need, and it takes all of about ten minutes to do a gallon. If you have a steady hand you can decant off most of the gasoline, and I'm maybe left with a quart of ethanol-water mixture with an oz or two of gasoline. I throw that on the next brush pile I'm starting to help it along. If I were needing to do larger quantities it's pretty easy to build a separator with a bottom drain for more of a continuous operation, I did that when I first started storing gasoline and didn't have my drums under shelter and the drums would take on water over time. Hasn't been an issue for me for the last 20 years

 

[CountryBoy19]

I've not found it taking more than one session to achieve the results I need, and it takes all of about ten minutes to do a gallon. If you have a steady hand you can decant off most of the gasoline, and I'm maybe left with a quart of ethanol-water mixture with an oz or two of gasoline. I throw that on the next brush pile I'm starting to help it along. If I were needing to do larger quantities it's pretty easy to build a separator with a bottom drain for more of a continuous operation, I did that when I first started storing gasoline and didn't have my drums under shelter and the drums would take on water over time. Hasn't been an issue for me for the last 20 years

Right, it's much easier to do it when you can actually see the line separating the 2 mixtures as you've indicated. My comment was in regard to attempting to do this with some sort of commercially available fuel/water separator that does not allow you to see when the collection area of the separator is full or water or when you've drained all the water out and you're now draining precious gas into your waste-water container.

Imagine trying to decant as you normally would, except you're blind-folded and can't see the two different fluids in your container. That adds a great deal of complexity to the process and that is why I questioned the use of the commercially available marine fuel/water separator that was mentioned.

 

[Zoub]

Either way, it's a lot easier to find 100LL av-gas or a gas station that carries ethanol free gas if thats what you want/need. I haven't had any problems with normal 87 octane gas in my OPE... yet...

You will, you can't change science. I have seen the results of a study that cost hundreds of thousands to study and prove the differences in octanes of fuel. Results aside, I have known for 42 years the engineer who did the study. Take his free advice. It only costs you 10 cents per gallon. I have done my own tests on it over 25 years and saw differences as well.

The fuel pump/filter combo runs on 12 volt. In a marine environment you have to deal with water in the gas and the combo works as a nice fuel transfer pump. This is what a marine grade water separator looks like. You don't need to see anything, when it is full, you will know. You may not "get it" but multi million dollar boats and 30k boats do. You can't see your engine oil filter or air filter work but they do.
SIERRA FUEL WATER SEPARATOR KIT 1/4 INCH & 3/8 INCH 18-77771 at MarinePowerService.com

It is good to know how to do what Skibummer is talking about because it works any where, any time, all it requires is a little time, patience and eye sight. I have done it on the side of the road with a bucket and pliers when I got bad gas. Keep draining from the fuel line under my tank until I knew all the water was out of the tank. Bad gas stopped me in my tracks. I removed the water and recovered all my gas.

The pump is a good solution when "recovering" gas from tanks blind and you do not know the status, age or condition of the fuel. Also moving larger volumes of gas, up, down or horizontal.

My other method I made 20 years ago with spare parts and I still have the first one. Fuel line squeeze bulb from an outboard motor, clear tubing and 2 stainless steel hose clamps.

MERCURY MARINE Primer Bulb Assembly at West Marine

 

[CountryBoy19]

You will, you can't change science. I have seen the results of a study that cost hundreds of thousands to study and prove the differences in octanes of fuel. Results aside, I have known for 42 years the engineer who did the study. Take his free advice. It only costs you 10 cents per gallon. I have done my own tests on it over 25 years and saw differences as well.

Link to the study? How can I take his advice if I can't find the study? Just curious but what problems have you experienced with 87 octane?

You don't need to see anything, when it is full, you will know.

Can you enlighten me? How will one "know"? When the gas coming through the separate has water in it? How do you know when you drained all the water out of the separator? When gas starts running out the bottom? That's the point I was trying to make about Shibumiseekers process where you can visually quantify how much water you have to remove (or how much fuel you can safely pour off the top without getting water in the fuel again).

You may not "get it" but multi million dollar boats and 30k boats do. You can't see your engine oil filter or air filter work but they do.

I "get it", trust me. I think we're just having a hard time communicating what we are talking about. I grew up on a farm and we had water separators on every single tank we had and most of the tractors etc had them too. I'm intimately familiar with their use, probably much more-so than most people using them for recreational marine purposes ever will be. That being said, we're talking about using them outside of their normal intended use. The one you linked will hold what, 8-12 fl. oz. of water before it needs to be drained? If you don't drain it they will pass water through. Basically its a "bowl" that allows the water to sink out of the fuel.

So lets say we follow shibumiseekers process on 1 gallon of fuel that is 10% ethanol. Neglect the chemistry of how volume may change as Ethanol mixes with water lets look at the volumes involved and just directly add up the volume of ethanol and water to get the volume of the ethyl/water mix. 128 fl oz of E10 = 12.8 oz of ethanol + 3-4 fl oz of water. Mixed and water/ethanol mix allowed to settle to bottom will yield ~16 fl. oz. of "stuff" that needs filtered out if we follow the above "assumption" that the volumes just directly add together. So to get your slightly less than 1 gal of ethanol free gas with the typical fuel/water separator you have to empty the separator 2-4 times, and that is assuming you know exactly when the filter is full of water without passing water through it (ie not going to happen with a filter you can't see). Now comes in the problem. While emptying it there is NO way to tell if you have all the water out, or even close to all the water out until gas starts pouring through the drain-cock. So now you've lost some gas to your process... Add that up over 4 emptying cycles in the separator and that becomes a significant amount of gas that you waste, especially when you're already losing quite a bit of what you paid for when the ethanol goes away. OTOH, you could also just all of the run the mix through the filter allowing it to fill with water and passing water on to your output collection vessel, but then emptying the filter and recycling through again and again until you're sure you got all the water out. One way wastes gas and the other way wastes quite a bit of time. And neither way will be 100% sure without a lot of waste in the process.

Air-filters can be judged for "fullness" by visual inspection and then be cleaned with an air-hose and visually inspected again for "relative cleanliness" so that is irrelevant. Yes, I realize oil filters work even though you can't see them. The same as fuel/water separators work even though you can't see them but one major difference is that the latter STOPS working when it fills up with water that it has separated out. The former is replaced periodically for maintenance (you don't wait for it to "fill up") unlike the latter that isn't replaced when full (you drain the water out the bottom from the drain-cock).

 

[aaron580]

All the problems can be solved with the new stihl moto mix that can be bought just about everywhere stihl is sold. Its non ethanol gasoline pre-mixed that lasts for 3 years if unopened and 2 years opened. We use it in the winter when we dont use the saws often and switch to normal mix when we use them a LOT. for a person that isnt using their stihl piece everyday, its a great investment. My family owns haltom equipment in mooresville, IN and we are a stihl dealer. This is just my testimony with the moto mix apart from our business though LOL

 

[hornadylnl]

I got my can in the mail the other day. Looks like it's going to pretty sweet. There isn't any sort of cap for the flex spout but there are caps for each side that will be great for transporting the can. I won't be able to use it til after Christmas as it's from Santa.

Also, what brand of chains do you guys use? I've been buying Stihl chains and have not been a fan of Oregon. Anybody use Carlton or the others?

 

[smokingman]

MS170(in a case on a 4 wheeler)

My very reliable rebuilt AV31.I had a new base plate,rings,gaskets,cylinder sleeve,and carb rebuild last year for around $180.Also put a new bar on it.It says quite a bit about the company that they still support a 30+ year old saw(this was done at a dealer),and that I have never had a problem out of it.

The rings where shot,the cylinder was scored,and the base plate was leaking.Even with all that it still ran(though was a bear to start). I figured it was worth the money to rebuild.Now it is a first pull champ again and I should get many more years out of it.

+1 Stihl

 

[CountryBoy19]

Carlton or the others?

I use Woodland Pro chains, which are made by Carlton. I love them. IMHO you can't beat them for the price. Stihl chains are good but very expensive so I'll pass...

I have to ask though, since you don't like Oregon chains, did you know that Oregon and Carlton are both owned by the same parent company? Just thought it was worth the mention if you don't like them as a "company" and you're boycotting their products.

 

[shibumiseeker]

I got my can in the mail the other day. Looks like it's going to pretty sweet. There isn't any sort of cap for the flex spout but there are caps for each side that will be great for transporting the can. I won't be able to use it til after Christmas as it's from Santa.

Also, what brand of chains do you guys use? I've been buying Stihl chains and have not been a fan of Oregon. Anybody use Carlton or the others?

I use Stihl chains with no issues except the smallest chain for the 017 which just doesn't hold up. I went to the next gauge up chain, the same size as I use on my 025, and have not had any trouble.

I got my can in the mail two days ago, and so far so good. The issue with the spout not having a cap is minorly annoying, but overall I like the can. Just not the price.

 

[hornadylnl]

I use Woodland Pro chains, which are made by Carlton. I love them. IMHO you can't beat them for the price. Stihl chains are good but very expensive so I'll pass...

I have to ask though, since you don't like Oregon chains, did you know that Oregon and Carlton are both owned by the same parent company? Just thought it was worth the mention if you don't like them as a "company" and you're boycotting their products.

Now that I'm better at filing, I might have better luck with Oregon. They just didn't seem to stay sharp as long as the Stihl chains. Nothing personal against Oregon the company.

My 25" chains run $25-30 each depending on the delear so I was wondering if there was a better option out there.

 

[hornadylnl]

I use Stihl chains with no issues except the smallest chain for the 017 which just doesn't hold up. I went to the next gauge up chain, the same size as I use on my 025, and have not had any trouble.

I got my can in the mail two days ago, and so far so good. The issue with the spout not having a cap is minorly annoying, but overall I like the can. Just not the price.

I saw you can get a shorter no spill spout for the fuel but it'll run about $45 shipped due to the high uk prices. I have no idea why their stuff cost so much more. An MS201T is 696 pounds with a 14" bar. That's over $1100. I'll try the flex spout and if I don't like not having a cap, I'll make one or go the no spill spout route.

 

[CountryBoy19]

Now that I'm better at filing, I might have better luck with Oregon. They just didn't seem to stay sharp as long as the Stihl chains. Nothing personal against Oregon the company.

My 25" chains run $25-30 each depending on the delear so I was wondering if there was a better option out there.

You probably won't find any chains that hold up as good as Stihl; that is why they command a premium price. Oregon has a reputation of less edge retention.

As for how well they hold up I would rank them like this:
Best: Stihl -> WoodlandPro -> Oregon :Worst

Carlton would fall between WoodlandPro and Oregon I believe but I can't say for sure... I think there was something with the WoodlandPro chains that made them hold up just a bit longer than normal Carlton chains.

 

[hornadylnl]

You probably won't find any chains that hold up as good as Stihl; that is why they command a premium price. Oregon has a reputation of less edge retention.

As for how well they hold up I would rank them like this:
Best: Stihl -> WoodlandPro -> Oregon :Worst

Carlton would fall between WoodlandPro and Oregon I believe but I can't say for sure... I think there was something with the WoodlandPro chains that made them hold up just a bit longer than normal Carlton chains.

I'll stick with the Stihl then. I've tried using a Dremel tool to sharpen chains and even took some to a Stihl dealer to have sharpen. If they've been sharpened with a grinder, I've not had any luck at all. I paid a fortune to have those sharpened and they're going in the trash. I just use a file and guide now and have much better luck. After I've sharpened them several times, the cut will start to wander a little as I'm not getting the angles just right but still better than machine ground. I find that filing them by hand is still faster as I don't have to pull the chain off and put it back on. The 25" does take a good bit longer than the 14" though.

 

[shibumiseeker]

I've been hand sharpening the chains exclusively for years now. Once you get the angles down (and I use a guide that clamps to the file) it's really easy and much faster than an electric version, plus the chain lasts longer. I ONCE took chains in to be done on the automated machine and it took me a while to get them all back to properly sharpened.

I file every 1-2 tanks of gas and it generally only takes touching up (3-5 swipes) and every now and then filing down the depth gauges (every few months). I can sharpen my 32" bar on my 064 in about 10 minutes and the 16" bar takes 2-3 minutes.

I recently had an opportunity to spend a day sawing with a bunch of folks and apparently out of that group I was the only person who knew how to maintain a chainsaw/chain. There were cuts that made a parabola, cuts that were smoking the wood, people who were manually sawing the chain back and forth as they were running the saw, etc. It was painful to watch.

 

[shibumiseeker]

I saw you can get a shorter no spill spout for the fuel but it'll run about $45 shipped due to the high uk prices. I have no idea why their stuff cost so much more. An MS201T is 696 pounds with a 14" bar. That's over $1100. I'll try the flex spout and if I don't like not having a cap, I'll make one or go the no spill spout route.

Yours did come with hard caps for both sides, right? Mine did. I put some paracord on the flex spout and through the hole on the handle so it doesn't get lost in transport. The tool holder is ok, but it won't accept the file guides, and I haven't figured out what the one on the other side is for.

 

[hornadylnl]

I've been hand sharpening the chains exclusively for years now. Once you get the angles down (and I use a guide that clamps to the file) it's really easy and much faster than an electric version, plus the chain lasts longer. I ONCE took chains in to be done on the automated machine and it took me a while to get them all back to properly sharpened.

I file every 1-2 tanks of gas and it generally only takes touching up (3-5 swipes) and every now and then filing down the depth gauges (every few months). I can sharpen my 32" bar on my 064 in about 10 minutes and the 16" bar takes 2-3 minutes.

I recently had an opportunity to spend a day sawing with a bunch of folks and apparently out of that group I was the only person who knew how to maintain a chainsaw/chain. There were cuts that made a parabola, cuts that were smoking the wood, people who were manually sawing the chain back and forth as they were running the saw, etc. It was painful to watch.

Yes, I'm kind of learning as I go. When I first started using a saw, I used a new chain until it got dull and tossed it. Then I was cutting much so it wasn't that expensive. My uncle had some nice Stihls but I never got to watch him do it. I've had some people show me here and there and I'm getting better at it.

 

[hornadylnl]

Yours did come with hard caps for both sides, right? Mine did. I put some paracord on the flex spout and through the hole on the handle so it doesn't get lost in transport. The tool holder is ok, but it won't accept the file guides, and I haven't figured out what the one on the other side is for.

Yes, I got hard caps for both sides. I noticed that the file guides won't fit as well. Just being able to have a screwdriver and a scrench in there will be a big help. From what I read, the funky tool holder is for a grease gun. I may try to modify that so that I can put some file guides in it.

I have a nice little toolbox that is about 16"x18"x4" that has a lid on the side. There are several cups in it that are great for putting chains, 2 cycle oil bottles, spark plugs, etc. There is one long slot that I keep my file guides, screnches, etc. in. I'll try to take a pic of it so you can see what I'm talking about.

I'm also thinking about breaking down and getting the front hood rack for my Gator. That way I can put my saws and gas can in it so I can leave the bed open for wood and limbs. The only problem is that the hood rack is made out of tube spaced about 6" apart so I'd have to make a pan to fit in it.

 

[hornadylnl]

I got new drive sprockets, air filters, spark plugs, and 5 gallons of ethanol free gas. Hopefully I'll be off Saturday to do some more cutting. In my younger days, I hated to take the time to stop and clean and do maintenance on my equipment. I'm finding it a welcome break from work now. Damn, I'm getting old.

A guy has 2 056's listed in the classifieds. I'd love to have one but I don't know if I can justify spending the coin.

 

[shibumiseeker]

Yes, I got hard caps for both sides. I noticed that the file guides won't fit as well. Just being able to have a screwdriver and a scrench in there will be a big help. From what I read, the funky tool holder is for a grease gun. I may try to modify that so that I can put some file guides in it.

Ooh, now there's an idea.

I made some harnesses for the hard scabbard so I can put the chainsaws on the tractor, that way they are out of the way.

And last night I just made another gallon of ethanol free gas for the new can 8-)

 

[dhnorris]

Just got back from the emergency room, before stitches 4" long 1" wide 3/8" deep MS 290 top of right thigh. Painless at first. I was cutting a cluster of hackberries saw got sort of stuck and I pulled a little too hard with the chain slightly spinning. I knew I shouldn't have taken time off of work to work around the house.