Should drugs be legalized ?

[jbombelli]

Now wait a minute Steve...When I drink Bourbon I get very witty, sing in perfect harmony, am shocked at how suave and good looking I am, and do not understand the need for body armor due to the fact that I am 10 feet tall and bullet proof......

Are you saying that is an illusion....

That is in fact an illusion.



Only tequila does that.

 

[yote hunter]

I don't know how it should be done but maybe just let the druggies go the health Dept. and get there fix for free and see how it all plays out and while they are there give them some condoms while they are at it... Or make it so that it you want free drugs you have to be fixed first to be able to be in the program.. That would be two fold and the druggies can't reproduce .... lol

 

[jamil]

That is in fact an illusion.



Only tequila does that.

Hold on. Playing quarters with Vodka shots has done that to me a time or two.

 

[jamil]

This guy has the answer to the drug issue:

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[BugI02]

With stuff like heroin and cocaine, I'd still like to see massive disincentives of usage if the prohibition were to be lifted. I'd also would want the phase out of the normal syringe and replace them with single-use ones to prevent the spread of blood borne diseases.

I would suggest that the appropriate 'massive disincentive' be that if you're hopped up and crash into me while driving or otherwise harm my family then three in the center of mass. Problem solved, no repeat offenders

 

[BugI02]

Nothing's going to change, there's too many people making too much money off the problem and the mess that it leaves behind. There really isn't a good answer.

Develop a drug that makes people REALLY high while also making them care about their fellow man? Sort of empathic quaaludes?

 

[BugI02]

I don't see the point in wasting money on this. Lets just crack down on people that commit crimes against others and not them selves. I don't agree with people doing most drugs specially prescription pills but its there life they will screw up and who am I to stop them from being stupid. When they harm others is when to stop them and there should be laws with regards to intoxicated when committing a crime with more server punishment. Not that I think that will help either.

What if that person busily screwing up their life is your co-worker and your safety at work depends to some extent on their unaltered consciousness?

 

[BugI02]

No, you're absolutely right. I do not. I want it cooked in a factory with proper safety equipment where it belongs, then sold at reasonable market prices so that the people who want to kill themselves with it can do it without breaking into my car to steal my stereo.



Of course not.

Since we don't like murder, should we ban the pre-crime to murder - possessing a weapon? Since we're banning things that we're afraid of?



Colorado left far too much regulation in place to take out the black market. But I'd like a source for the 'more homeless and crime' assertion. I haven't read that.



That's not harsh at all. I agree with you, that is the real key. Personal responsibility. Want to cook your brain with meth? Do it on your own dime. Eliminate all of these welfare programs.

Yep, because you know Big Pharma always prices its products so .... reasonably!

 

[BugI02]

Shine is still around my friend. Just because you do not see does not mean it is not there.

It has little effect on the main liquor markets but it is around.

+1 Its more of a boutique product line for connoisseurs these days

 

[BugI02]

I am aware that people still make it as a hobby. But apart from areas where liquor is still prohibited, it's production and distribution is no longer surrounded by violent crime. That is the point.

Why bother when you can buy a bottle of a better moonshine equivalent at the store cheaper than you can make it at home?

But there are still laws against making it steveh - some the kind of laws that tripped up Capone I might add

 

[BugI02]

First of all, this is not government free.

Safety can be largely governed by civil and criminal courts as it is today. Harming others with your business should be harshly punished.

Prices are of course determined by the free market forces of supply and demand.

Is this not how the very drug laws you seek to abolish got their start?

 

[steveh_131]

What if that person busily screwing up their life is your co-worker and your safety at work depends to some extent on their unaltered consciousness?

They should be fired. Free market.

Yep, because you know Big Pharma always prices its products so .... reasonably!

That's because of patents. How much does a year's of Tylenol cost you? Not much.

Is this not how the very drug laws you seek to abolish got their start?

No.

 

[steveh_131]

But there are still laws against making it steveh - some the kind of laws that tripped up Capone I might add

There are no laws against making the product. There are regulations governing how it should be made, but not enough to support a full black market and it's associated violence.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

There are no laws against making the product. There are regulations governing how it should be made, but not enough to support a full black market and it's associated violence.

Actually it is illegal to make unless you have the required permit/licenses.

ETA Kinda like let's say class 3 firearms. Illegal to make unless you get approved and pay the tax. Are their laws against making your own suppressor even if it's just for personal use?

 

[dusty88]

They should be fired. Free market.



That's because of patents. How much does a year's of Tylenol cost you? Not much.

Nope. Exsqueeze me. But many generics are very expensive right now. That's regulatory, not patents. Yes, there are always some newer drugs on the market that are under patent production and are high-priced. But in most cases these drugs have new replacements developed before their patent expires and/or there are good generic alternatives.


Meanwhile, generics are mysteriously going off-market then coming back 5-100x what they used to cost. You and I should theoretically be able to get a chemist and start up our own production plant, but even if we had the millions to get through the approval process for production, it would take years. Generic drugs aren't even tested like brand name drugs are (for effectiveness, safety, etc) but the FDA keeps putting more burdens on manufacturing. We end up getting a small number of inferior products from overseas.

 

[steveh_131]

Actually it is illegal to make unless you have the required permit/licenses.

ETA Kinda like let's say class 3 firearms. Illegal to make unless you get approved and pay the tax. Are their laws against making your own suppressor even if it's just for personal use?

Yes, that's why I said "There are regulations governing how it should be made".

The important point is that the regulations are lax enough that the product can still be made cheaply and efficiently and sold at free market prices, ruling out any need for a black market or its associated violence.

 

[steveh_131]

Nope. Exsqueeze me. But many generics are very expensive right now. That's regulatory, not patents. Yes, there are always some newer drugs on the market that are under patent production and are high-priced. But in most cases these drugs have new replacements developed before their patent expires and/or there are good generic alternatives.

Meanwhile, generics are mysteriously going off-market then coming back 5-100x what they used to cost. You and I should theoretically be able to get a chemist and start up our own production plant, but even if we had the millions to get through the approval process for production, it would take years. Generic drugs aren't even tested like brand name drugs are (for effectiveness, safety, etc) but the FDA keeps putting more burdens on manufacturing. We end up getting a small number of inferior products from overseas.

Yes, I am aware that regulations increase prices and cause black markets. That is why I am advocating less regulations. Without the regulations these items would be ridiculously inexpensive and the black market would disappear.

 

[bulletsmith]

Yes, I am aware that regulations increase prices and cause black markets. That is why I am advocating less regulations. Without the regulations these items would be ridiculously inexpensive and the black market would disappear.

So, you are in favor of drugs being made and sold without regulations now. Does this really deserve a rebuttal? While I would fight side by side with you to preserve your right to have your opinion, I pray that you are a lone voice in the wilderness. Some of your ideas are so far beyond logical that they scare me.

 

[steveh_131]

So, you are in favor of drugs being made and sold without regulations now. Does this really deserve a rebuttal? While I would fight side by side with you to preserve your right to have your opinion, I pray that you are a lone voice in the wilderness. Some of your ideas are so far beyond logical that they scare me.

Let's be clear on what 'without regulations' means. If I sell a drug that harms someone, should I be legally liable? Yes. This is important because fear of civil liability is the driving force behind the vast majority of product safety in the U.S. Many products are, for example, certified by U.L. Underwriters laboratories. This was a free market initiative created to keep safety standards high for manufactured goods. It existed long before most of these regulations ever did and was far more effective.

The regulations that should disappear are those that micro-manage the aspects of production. The FDA is the relevant agency in this instance. They don't work, they raise prices and lower efficiency. I've developed them for the FDA, I am well aware of how ridiculous and useless they are.

 

[dusty88]

So, you are in favor of drugs being made and sold without regulations now. Does this really deserve a rebuttal? While I would fight side by side with you to preserve your right to have your opinion, I pray that you are a lone voice in the wilderness. Some of your ideas are so far beyond logical that they scare me.

Are his ideas beyong logic or just different than what is considered "normal" these days?