Should drugs be legalized ?

[GodFearinGunTotin]

With stuff like heroin and cocaine, I'd still like to see massive disincentives of usage if the prohibition were to be lifted. I'd also would want the phase out of the normal syringe and replace them with single-use ones to prevent the spread of blood borne diseases.

Elimination of the welfare state would do this. If I'm not covering your and your family's expenses, I'm probably not going to care as much if you want to ruin your and your family's lives.

 

[mrjarrell]

My only comment in this thread will be this.....Meth/Krack and the like are nit agricultural. They are deadly poison. Period.

Meth has been around since the 30's. The only reason the horrible stuff passed off as meth is as popular as it is, is because the people who want it can't get old school amphetamines, (like our mothers and aunts and most of the military had access to decades ago). The DEA, in their infinite wisdom got all the safe precursor chemicals outlawed and no-one produces amphetamines in any quantity anymore. Prohibition created the meth problems we're seeing today. Same goes for crack.

 

[bulletsmith]

Prohibition didn't come about because of a group of uptight old women wouldn't stop complaining. Estimates say that the average man in 1830 consumed more than 7 gallons of alcohol a year. It was a real problem. There are plenty of examples throughout history where uncontrolled drug use has devastated society. China and their opium use comes to mind.

I want to do what I want to do without anybody telling me that I can't. But to think that society will police itself is naive. Like it or not, there has to be some middle ground.

 

[Twangbanger]

...Estimates say that the average man in 1830 consumed more than 7 gallons of alcohol a year....

(That's all? That's, like, a six-pack a month)

But more seriously: if taxpayer-financed drug treatment programs are explicitly banned, we let the addicts turn (exclusively) to families / churches / voluntary charities for help, and the windfall from discontinuing the drug war can be applied to debt reduction, yes, by all means, I say let's try it. But somehow I don't think that's what the "small government" types have in mind.

Like seemingly everyone else, most will simply want to swap "your" big government for "their" big government, apply the savings towards a mandatory army of social workers at taxpayer expense, and continue the march into national bankruptcy...with a different group of people standing with their mouth at the bottom of the public Money Funnel. (Changing the piglets at the teat every couple decades isn't my idea of small government).

If the above can't be accomplished...then myeh, I'm perfectly fine with maintaining the status quo. Perfection, or go home, that's my motto (hey, I think I'm starting to get this Libertarian stuff down ).

 

[poptab]

Prohibition didn't come about because of a group of uptight old women wouldn't stop complaining. Estimates say that the average man in 1830 consumed more than 7 gallons of alcohol a year. It was a real problem. There are plenty of examples throughout history where uncontrolled drug use has devastated society. China and their opium use comes to mind.

I want to do what I want to do without anybody telling me that I can't. But to think that society will police itself is naive. Like it or not, there has to be some middle ground.

Society isn't policing itself?

Give me liberty or give me death.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Prohibition didn't come about because of a group of uptight old women wouldn't stop complaining. Estimates say that the average man in 1830 consumed more than 7 gallons of alcohol a year. It was a real problem. There are plenty of examples throughout history where uncontrolled drug use has devastated society. China and their opium use comes to mind.

I want to do what I want to do without anybody telling me that I can't. But to think that society will police itself is naive. Like it or not, there has to be some middle ground.

There is. It's responsibility. If you're left up to your own devices to cope with the consequences of your decisions rather than socialize your failures among your neighbors, I contend things will tend to work themselves out. It wouldn't be pretty. And there'd be much outcry "for the children" but if you want to fix it, responsibility is the key.

 

[poptab]

If taxpayer-financed drug treatment programs are explicitly banned, we let the addicts turn (exclusively) to families / churches / voluntary charities for help, and the windfall from discontinuing the drug war can be applied to debt reduction, yes, by all means, let's do it. But somehow I don't think that's what the "small government" types have in mind.

Like seemingly everyone else, most will simply want to swap "your" big government for "their" big government, apply the savings towards a mandatory army of social workers at taxpayer expense, and continue the march into national bankruptcy...with a different group of people standing with their mouth at the bottom of the public Money Funnel. (Changing the piglets at the teat every couple decades isn't my idea of small government).

If the above can't be accomplished...then myeh, I'm perfectly fine with maintaining the status quo. Perfection, or go home, that's my motto (hey, I think I'm starting to get this Libertarian stuff down ).

You must not be paying attention.

 

[Zoub]

Prohibition is expensive, ineffective, and a horrible affront to our liberties.

It should all be legal and treated the same as any other agricultural commodity.

This.

I personally don't recall ever making a decision on alcohol or drugs based on the legality of them. They are all available 24/7. If prohibition worked the Uzi would never have been built. Jews were not supposed to have weapons. When has prohibition ever worked or been on the right side of history?

 

[bulletsmith]

Society isn't policing itself?

Give me liberty or give me death.

Define liberty.

 

[bulletsmith]

This.

I personally don't recall ever making a decision on alcohol or drugs based on the legality of them. They are all available 24/7. If prohibition worked the Uzi would never have been built. Jews were not supposed to have weapons. When has prohibition ever worked or been on the right side of history?

I agree that it didn't work. But I don't think it was on the wrong side of history. Something had to change.

 

[Zoub]

What needed to change Bulletsmith?

Someday the President of the United States will be the grandson of a rich cartel head. Because just like the Kennedy family, crime pays. Drugs go back farther then the recorded history of man, and yet we exist.

Too many controls interfere with evolution. Look at reservations, be it Indian or Section 8 housing, those people are addicted to govt assistance. End result is the same as a strung out heroin addict. Useless.

We live in a very remote area. The other day someone was fired for shooting up on heroin at work. So much for drug tests and background checks.

Now what really needs to change? I guess I am just comfortable with natural selection.

 

[MohawkSlim]

It would be easier to just get rid of the government.

 

[bulletsmith]

What needed to change Bulletsmith?

Someday the President of the United States will be the grandson of a rich cartel head. Because just like the Kennedy family, crime pays. Drugs go back farther then the recorded history of man, and yet we exist.

Too many controls interfere with evolution. Look at reservations, be it Indian or Section 8 housing, those people are addicted to govt assistance. End result is the same as a strung out heroin addict. Useless.

We live in a very remote area. The other day someone was fired for shooting up on heroin at work. So much for drug tests and background checks.

Now what really needs to change? I guess I am just comfortable with natural selection.

Admittedly, this is where I am conflicted. Natural selection? I'm for it (I think). At the same time though, I don't see this country developing at the same rate it did with more addiction issues.

I guess I just don't believe that the problems will take care of themselves without effecting my life. Or the lives of the people I care about.

 

[jbombelli]

If you'll excuse me, I have to tend to my Deadly Nightshade / Hemlock / Oleander garden.

 

[bulletsmith]

If you'll excuse me, I have to tend to my Deadly Nightshade / Hemlock / Oleander garden.

Have to remember to never eat a salad at your house.

 

[ruger1800]

Only for polititions and lawyers

 

[steveh_131]

Define liberty.

That's a long discussion, but policing what an individual chooses to ingest certainly ain't it.

 

[Zoub]

Admittedly, this is where I am conflicted. Natural selection? I'm for it (I think). At the same time though, I don't see this country developing at the same rate it did with more addiction issues.

I guess I just don't believe that the problems will take care of themselves without effecting my life. Or the lives of the people I care about.

This country already has more addiction issues then it did in the 60's, 70's or 80's. We also have a different Mexico. There is no easy fix in the future for this country but less freedom, more control and more government induced poverty and failure won't work.

I am Greek, I come from the birthplace of Democracy. You may know it as a Socialist ****hole.

 

[bulletsmith]

That's a long discussion, but policing what an individual chooses to ingest certainly ain't it.

Long discussion indeed. So what about the age old question: If you having your liberties infringes on me having my liberties, who is to sacrifice theirs?

Zoub, are you saying that we are doomed to an absolute end?

 

[Kutnupe14]

It seems that one certain effect of legalization would be to eliminate the criminal element. The Mexican cartels would have to look for another line of work. Likewise the thugs selling it here. Might help eliminate burglaries by dopers and end meth labs.

How do you figure? The only criminal element that would be eliminated would be the prohibition on selling and possessing it. The rest will remain the same. And I really don't think the cartels would simply walk away. Too much money.