What are the pros and cons of these for concealed carry? Wouldn't an SAO be safe with a round chambered as long as the safety is on? After putting 200 rounds thru my TCP I find my trigger finger gets rubbed raw by the trigger guard, and I have small hands. Its my first DAO, and while I see that DAO is quite popular, for me SA seems better, plus easier to stay on target thru the trigger break. The only pocket gun I see SAO is a SIG P238. Am I missing any? Any 9's out there that fill the bill? Comments appreciated.
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SAO or DAO
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I will start this off by saying that this is my opinion only, others will differ. I think a SAO should be left to shooters who really spend a lot of time training with that system ( unless it is purely a range or hunting toy ) Most people don't realize the changes the body goes through under a severe physical-emotional event. This is caused by the bodies stress reaction to a huge adrenalin dump. There are physiological changes and actions that take place in our bodies that we can not control and can only manage to a certain degree if you really train for it. In my opinion a short light trigger pull, for someone who does not train with it a lot, is an accident waiting to happen in that kind of an event. Lets face it, we all carry because we want to "be ready" to defend out lives in case something bad ever happens. By defintion that means we will be having the reaction I spoke about above. Knowing that, I thing we should pick the best weapon system that will mesh with what out bodies will be struggling with. In my opinion that is a no external safety, somewhat short ( but not short and light ala 1911 ) but firm, distinct trigger pull. I would go with the Glock, M&P, XD, Walther striker fired series, or a Smith revolver with a tuned trigger. When all the decision making and stress is swirling around your head, I dont want the distraction of a safety, then having to decock, mastering two different trigger pulls on the same weapon, or having to chance shaking, adrenalin dumped trigger finger on a 3.5 glass rod 1911 trigger. Your mileage may vary.
Ditto above. I consider myself a fairly "accomplished" pistolero for my age, and I don't really like single action for anything except range work. My Glocks feel just right to me for "confrontation" purposes. Enough resistance that I have to know what I am doing, but not enough to get in my way.
How about DA/SA? (My personal favorite.)
Long and firm for the first round, light and crisp for the following. Or, if you have time (and an open hammer) you can simply thumb back the hammer and then you have SAO.
This is why I prefer open hammer guns for my carry gun. (For the time being, anyhow!
)
Long and firm for the first round, light and crisp for the following. Or, if you have time (and an open hammer) you can simply thumb back the hammer and then you have SAO.
This is why I prefer open hammer guns for my carry gun. (For the time being, anyhow!
)
gunman41mag
Shooter
I'm a 1911 guy, there is nothing better, quicker or safer than a COCK-N-LOCK single action 1911
Not quite sure what you meant there, but I don't think it came out right. You shouldn't have to "decock" until after a situation has passed and you're making your weapon safe(r).
Otherwise I pretty much agree with your statement.
The catch-22, if the trigger is a long, hard DA trigger, the less-trained will be less accurate as they pull the pistol off target.
I'm a 1911 guy, there is nothing better, quicker or safer than a COCK-N-LOCK single action 1911
I agree, but put in tons of training with it or with whatever gun you chose for that manner.
I generally don't like DAO or TDA. My personal opinion is that the "safety" system should not interfere in any way with the ability to shoot quickly and accurately. The assumption that DAO or TDA is "Safer" is based on the long heavy pull acting as a type of "safety" system to prevent negligent discharge. But long heavy pulls are harder to shoot quickly and accurately in my experience.
(cue all the folks who will swear up and down that they can shoot a long 12lb DA pull just as quickly and accurately as a short crisp 3.5lb SA)
Disengaging a manual safety doesn't make trigger control and good shot placement any harder, so that's what I prefer something like a 1911 over a DAO or TDA. The 1911 in particular is a VERY safe design with the manual safety and grip safety.
The best option, however, is none of the above, which is why I like the "safe action" Glock, M&P or XD type pistols. No manual safety to worry about, trigger that is short and light enough that they're easy to shoot quickly and accurately, with a passive safety system. At least for me anyway. Your mileage may vary, of course.
(cue all the folks who will swear up and down that they can shoot a long 12lb DA pull just as quickly and accurately as a short crisp 3.5lb SA)
Disengaging a manual safety doesn't make trigger control and good shot placement any harder, so that's what I prefer something like a 1911 over a DAO or TDA. The 1911 in particular is a VERY safe design with the manual safety and grip safety.
The best option, however, is none of the above, which is why I like the "safe action" Glock, M&P or XD type pistols. No manual safety to worry about, trigger that is short and light enough that they're easy to shoot quickly and accurately, with a passive safety system. At least for me anyway. Your mileage may vary, of course.
sonofadoublegun
Plinker
It seems to me that in a concealed carry situation, not having to flip off a safety on a SAO gun would be a major benefit to the DAO shooter?
SODG
SODG
ChicagoZman
Plinker
Have carried SA (1911s) and DAO (Revolvers and Glocks) firearms. Own but will not carry DA/SA guns (SIGs, FNPs), because I do not care for the difference between first and second shot trigger pull. Would recommend that you train a LOT whichever way you go.
I'm with you on that.
Also, I am not a fan DA/SA for defensive guns. I have seen too many people struggle with that long pull on the first shot causing unnecessary misses. A consistent trigger pull is ideal.
I believe, like anything else, it's a matter of practice. I got used to carrying and qualifying with the 92FS. Carried with the hammer down. I also find a hammer to be more consistent then a striker. Again, that's my own observations. It's a matter of using what works for you.
For carry, there's no free lunch, you have to pick the least bad option for your preferences.
DAO: Simplest of all. Safest of all. Fast into the fight, harder to hit. Not all DAO is the same, you cannot compared a super heavy DAO revolver to a light and smooth DAO like a Sig P250, for example.
SAO: Training-intensive. REQUIRES a manual safety. Easy to be accurate. Also easy to accidentally fire when you don't intend.
My opinion for carry guns is this: The right operating system for you depends on how much training you are willing to do and how you will carry it. If you will buy a gun a put maybe 50rds through it every other year, get a DAO. If you are willing to practice a bit more, get a TDA. If you are committed to a LOT of training and practice, then get a striker or SAO gun.
Experience and training are required to run a striker or SAO gun effectively AND safely. If you can't or won't train much, stick with TDA or DAO.
I've switched from Striker to TDA and couldn't be happier. It took all of 100 rounds for the DA/SA transition to fell natural and for me to make my hits drilling it. I get the best of all worlds now without a manual safety.
DAO: Simplest of all. Safest of all. Fast into the fight, harder to hit. Not all DAO is the same, you cannot compared a super heavy DAO revolver to a light and smooth DAO like a Sig P250, for example.
SAO: Training-intensive. REQUIRES a manual safety. Easy to be accurate. Also easy to accidentally fire when you don't intend.
My opinion for carry guns is this: The right operating system for you depends on how much training you are willing to do and how you will carry it. If you will buy a gun a put maybe 50rds through it every other year, get a DAO. If you are willing to practice a bit more, get a TDA. If you are committed to a LOT of training and practice, then get a striker or SAO gun.
Experience and training are required to run a striker or SAO gun effectively AND safely. If you can't or won't train much, stick with TDA or DAO.
I've switched from Striker to TDA and couldn't be happier. It took all of 100 rounds for the DA/SA transition to fell natural and for me to make my hits drilling it. I get the best of all worlds now without a manual safety.
Another reason I think a SAO carried condition one is a bad idea for carry use: that hammer being back exposes the essential mechanism of the gun to all kind of who knows what crud. And since most people over-lube their guns, a typical newby "C&L" SAO carrier will end up with so much scuz under the hammer that you won't if the gun would actually fire.
And the needless safety risk of decocking an SAO when NOT carrying it. Sure, it can be done safely. But you can also safely disassembly a GLOCK even though you have to pull the trigger. Yet how many people are hurt every year cleaning a GLOCK? Risks that give you no reward are stupid. And having no decocker on a carry gun with a hammer is-- in my opinion-- similarly foolish.
And the needless safety risk of decocking an SAO when NOT carrying it. Sure, it can be done safely. But you can also safely disassembly a GLOCK even though you have to pull the trigger. Yet how many people are hurt every year cleaning a GLOCK? Risks that give you no reward are stupid. And having no decocker on a carry gun with a hammer is-- in my opinion-- similarly foolish.
Answer being, it depends! Some of the more antiquated members here swear by SAO, even though it was outdated after the P35 hit the scene. They still cling to it like, well, bitter clingers, but no one really takes them seriously anymore!
DAO guns were answers to questions nobody really asked seriously, and have all their flaws, and few benefits. To each their own, but all pistols should be Glocks, and all Glocks should be approved by Churchmouse, and 19’s.
DAO guns were answers to questions nobody really asked seriously, and have all their flaws, and few benefits. To each their own, but all pistols should be Glocks, and all Glocks should be approved by Churchmouse, and 19’s.
