You forgot **** the U.N.
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Russia vs. Ukraine Part 2
- Thread starter Bigtanker
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I am sure someone will be along soon with the western media,cookies,and the democracy of overthrowing elected officials.
At the center of it all.
www.usaid.gov
Of course the US has a law that goes even further....but no one else should(per the USAID and Western media).
www.justice.gov
At the center of it all.
Georgia | U.S. Agency for International Development
Georgia is a key U.S. ally in the Caucasus region and a gateway for energy resources from the Caspian Sea to Europe and beyond. The Government of Georgia is committed to advancing democratic and economic reforms, strengthening the rule of law, and improving social services. Georgia’s 2012...
Of course the US has a law that goes even further....but no one else should(per the USAID and Western media).
Foreign Agents Registration Act
AndreusMaximus
Master
Laying aside past, present, and potential future wrongdoings that are not directly connected to this war, I am confident in saying that within the context of this particular war, Russia is the "bad guy" and Ukraine is the "good guy", by which I simply mean that I think Ukraine is justified in their fight, while Russia is not.
Yes, NATO has pulled some awful, immoral shenanigans that Russia has legitimate reason to gripe about. Yes, I feel uncomfortable when people accuse anyone who points out NATO's faults as being on the communist side, as if Europe isn't charging full steam ahead into what is essentially communism under a different name.
BUT there simply wasn't enough to justify an invasion of Ukraine's territory. I like to use the analogy of deadly force between individuals. If someone is posing an imminent threat to your or another's life, it's justifiable to use deadly force against them. But what Russia is doing is like if your neighbor was getting too buddy-buddy with a rival family (who had been involved in some shady, illegal stuff in order to hurt you before) and you were worried that they might let that rival family put weapons in their house, which would then enable them to pick you off in your own front yard any time they want, so your response was to bust into your neighbor's house, hold them at gun point, and start shooting their kids one by one telling them you won't stop until they hand over part of their property and promise to never, ever join up with that rival family.
So I hope Russia loses this war, and Ukraine wins. And for all the faults of NATO, the EU, and our own corrupt government, I think we still have a legitimate, justified interest is helping Ukraine out.
That being said, my biggest hope is simply that the war ends soon. If that means concessions from Ukraine, so be it, and NATO shouldn't be trying to goad Ukraine into further loss of life simply to protect their own interests. Of course, the flip side of that is that the worst possible situation would be for Russia to be emboldened to attempt future invasions, so I see a complete capitulation of Ukraine as potentially disastrous. But Ukrainians are also not pawns to be used is NATO's game, and we can't expect them to keep shedding their blood to prop up western interests in the region.
I also welcome a healthy degree of skepticism regarding giving aid to Ukraine. Situations like this can far too easily turn into something that politicians just like to keep going forever, and keep milking to gain themselves political points, then the moment they feel like it's becoming unpopular, drop it like a hot potato, and the US ends up pulling out of the situation with nothing to show for all the wasted resources. So it's a good things for citizens to stay concerned about it, and not just go "Oh, it's such a tiny percentage of our GDP, who cares about it?"
On top of that, simply by nature of the fact that it seems like all the politicians who have proven themselves to be a fan of just about anything anti-freedom and anti-American in the last decade, are now the ones telling us what an absolute obligation we have to help out Ukraine, I can really understand why someone just can't imagine that they could possibly be correct in saying that, and I don't like it at all when someone tries to dismiss their concerns as "laughable."
I think we more or less (or somewhat) agree on the above, yes?
AndreusMaximus
Master
What does "good guy" mean to you, then? And can you think of any war where there has been a "good guy"?
Notice on the Continuation of the National Emergency with Respect to Ukraine | The White House
On March 6, 2014, by Executive Order 13660, the President declared a national emergency pursuant to the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (50 U.S.C. 1701-1706) to deal with the unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security and foreign policy of the United States constituted...
Lest we forget Russia kicked Georgia rear end in 2008.
https://www.csis.org/analysis/russias-hybrid-aggression-against-georgia-use-local-and-external-tools
https://www.csis.org/analysis/russias-hybrid-aggression-against-georgia-use-local-and-external-tools
I am sure someone will be along soon with the western media,cookies,and the democracy of overthrowing elected officials.
At the center of it all.
Georgia | U.S. Agency for International Development
Georgia is a key U.S. ally in the Caucasus region and a gateway for energy resources from the Caspian Sea to Europe and beyond. The Government of Georgia is committed to advancing democratic and economic reforms, strengthening the rule of law, and improving social services. Georgia’s 2012...
Of course the US has a law that goes even further....but no one else should(per the USAID and Western media).
Foreign Agents Registration Act
Who could have seen that coming?
No mention of the US have a far stricter law though...wonder why?
Caught between the West and Russia, could Georgia be the next Ukraine? - Local News 8
By Sophie Tanno and Niamh Kennedy, CNN Protests have erupted in Georgia this week after the country’s parliament passed the first reading of a draft law that would require some organizations receiving foreign funding to register as “foreign agents.” It has been compared to a draconian set of...
localnews8.com
"In April 2022, an astounding 82 percent of Democrats and 67 percent of Republicans indicated that they believed it was a good idea for America to support Ukraine with financial aid in order to fend off the Russians. The support has now dipped 7 points among Democrats and 28 points among Republicans.
As of Feb. 2023, the policy of the U.S. giving financial aid to Ukraine to fight Russia is supported by 75 percent of Democrats and only 39 percent of Republicans. The Economist, which commissioned the poll with YouGov, calls the results a “worrying trend.”
bigleaguepolitics.com
www.france24.com
As of Feb. 2023, the policy of the U.S. giving financial aid to Ukraine to fight Russia is supported by 75 percent of Democrats and only 39 percent of Republicans. The Economist, which commissioned the poll with YouGov, calls the results a “worrying trend.”
New Polling Shows Support for War in Ukraine is Dropping Sharply Among U.S. Public - Big League Politics
The effectiveness of the propaganda is declining.
bigleaguepolitics.com
NATO chief warns Bakhmut may fall in coming days
NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg warned Wednesday the eastern Ukrainian city of Bakhmut might fall to Russia in the coming days following months of intense fighting.
www.france24.com
"In April 2022, an astounding 82 percent of Democrats and 67 percent of Republicans indicated that they believed it was a good idea for America to support Ukraine with financial aid in order to fend off the Russians. The support has now dipped 7 points among Democrats and 28 points among Republicans.
As of Feb. 2023, the policy of the U.S. giving financial aid to Ukraine to fight Russia is supported by 75 percent of Democrats and only 39 percent of Republicans. The Economist, which commissioned the poll with YouGov, calls the results a “worrying trend.”
New Polling Shows Support for War in Ukraine is Dropping Sharply Among U.S. Public - Big League Politics
The effectiveness of the propaganda is declining.
NATO chief warns Bakhmut may fall in coming days
NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg warned Wednesday the eastern Ukrainian city of Bakhmut might fall to Russia in the coming days following months of intense fighting.
Republicans must love putin.
I’m getting pretty tired of that nonsense. If you don’t support unlimited support, you must love Putin. I think if you support unlimited support, you’re a fool. We’re being fleeced. Putting a Ukrainian flag in as your avatar doesn’t signal the virtue you think it does.
I don't think the accusation of "loving Putin" was given for stating opposition to supporting Ukraine, at least not here on INGO. Rather, it was the gleeful posting links to articles full of support for Putin and Russia, defending the invasion, and so full of ******** that they were laughable. Sources with domain names ending in "pravda.ru" "moscowtimes.com".
Given I have posted stories from the other side of our war against Russia,I assume you mean me.
My problem with that is without hearing and seeing the other side it is nothing but an echo chamber. Few others have posted anything from the other side. In an open debate both sides are heard. That is what appears to draw your ire. The debate, because your side can do no wrong and you know who your enemy is.
I do not think you do. You regurgitate what you are told and taught. Me I would rather learn a bit and look at the history of the events that led us to this point.
That does not mean I am pro Russia or Ukrainian. In my opinion it is a conflict we should not be involved in. I only even care about who the winner will be because of the cost to the USA. Including wrecking our world reserve currency status. I also understand who the likely winner will be,and I do not think it will be Russia or Ukraine,but India and China as they have earned hundreds of billions staying neutral and selling Russian oil,gas,metals,coal,and lumber to the US and Europe(at very high profit margins).
Reminds me of this kind of thing.
French Politician Faces Criminal Trial For Immigration Criticism | ZeroHedge
ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero
www.zerohedge.com
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I think my comment went right over your head. Is purple required?
Not so much drawing my ire as my laughter. Plenty of stories are linked in this thread and its predecessor with accusations like: America is working with the Ukrainians to engineer an avian-borne virus that targets only Slavs. I don't care who you are, that's some funny **** right there.
I don't want to call you or anyone else out; I just got banned from another forum for just that. But there are people here and elsewhere that appear eager to find fault with the West in general, and America specifically, to the point of defending Putin's 3rd invasion in 14 years. I can understand not willing to provide Ukraine with our tax dollars, but the full-throated support of Russia and Putin is something that baffles me.
I wonder how much of this is political. I wonder if the narrative here would be different if instead of that senile old fool occupying the White House, somebody like, oh, I don't know, Trump was still President.
I have not posted about any virus and I have mentioned the US funded labs(but so has Germany and India at the UN).
The media narrative was very different when Obama was in for sure, after Russia took over Crimea there were some strongly worded articles and letters,but no call to war. When Trump wanted to help Ukraine get it back it was "he will cause ww3" "he is a power hungry mad man who will get us all killed" ect.
When he backed down they flipped a switch and the media was all "He is pro Putin" ect...
I pay very little attention to the narrative. The history though,that is how you understand what is going on and will likely happen as a result. I posted I believe in this thread the day we eliminated Russian assess to swift that they just killed our reserve currency status(and that children were in charge of DC). Now more countries than ever are trading in local currencies, even Saudi Arabia(the hinge pin of the petro dollar). It will have consequences for the USA, and none of them good. All because we wanted to get involved.
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