Russia vs Ukraine anyone watching this ignite?

[Mikey1911]

View attachment 190807

Ukraine Tractor Brigade.

Maybe John Deere will offer a “Ukrainian Special Edition” Blue over Yellow paint job?

(Yellow and Blue mix to make Green, anyway)

 

[Sigblaster]

Wrong end.

Browneye of the tiger?

 

[Sigblaster]

I read that the Russians "don't trust" their lower ranking officers and NCOs to act independently, so they keep a alot of generals up front to remove latency in decision making. But I'm not the Secretary of Defense, so I can't say for sure.

That fits in well with the decades old training on their doctrine that I received. It may not have changed. Higher ranks don't want lower ranks to think above their level. Of course, we teach our troops to train for their rank and two ranks above. In their world, they want people who follow orders, not question them. Their whole society is built on a rigid structure of doing what they're told without question, and a fundamental mistrust of everyone. It only makes sense that their military would function the same way.

 

[actaeon277]

An army that relies on conscripts in bulk, can't afford the level of training we have.
We have a smaller force, so we rely on fancy weapons, and on a highly trained force.

Whenever I hear people talk about "bring back the draft", so that people can understand, I shake my head NO.
You'd just dilute the training and weapons $/person.
And many of those forced, would just get in the way.


Even in the navy, repairs that in the US are done by Petty Officers or even seamen, are done by officers in the Russian Navy.
The Russian Navy's conscripts are less trained.

 

[Sigblaster]

Brace yourselves.. this picture may produce rapid heart beats and heavy breathing...

its an airplane full of Lake City 2021 produced M80 ball and M62 tracer in M13 links. 4 ball to 1 tracer headed to Ukraine.

View attachment 190777

Unfortunately, they shipped the ammo by UPS, and it's going to be delivered to Albania.

 

[actaeon277]

remember when they said they would not do this?

 

[Sigblaster]

remember when they said they would not do this?

View attachment 190843

Remember when people believed that?

 

[Sigblaster]

Even my wife knew that was BS when they said that, and she wasn't even in the Army, but she was with me for the last 12 years of my career.

 

[actaeon277]

Even my wife knew that was BS when they said that, and she wasn't even in the Army, but she was with me for the last 12 years of my career.

Now it reminds me of something, that would probably be better in the "military BS" thread, so as not to bog this one down

 

[wingrider1800]

It just keeps getting better.

 

[Ark]

remember when they said they would not do this?

View attachment 190843

Give it another couple years and my fat, old, slow, crippled ass will be suitable for frontline combat service.

*eats cheese-it* It's a waiting game man

 

[Mongo59]

This time around they will probably want me in the Navy. Fire me out of one of those big guns to lube the lands...

 

[ancjr]

This time around they will probably want me in the Navy. Fire me out of one of those big guns to lube the lands...

Sad thing is they've already mothballed the Iowa class ships.

 

[Mongo59]

Sad thing is they've already mothballed the Iowa class ships.

Haven't they got anything bigger?

 

[ancjr]

Haven't they got anything bigger?

The civilian contractor I spoke to in 2008 or so told me that the Navy was wanting to move away from all ship mounted "guns" in favor of other types of weapons.

 

[Tombs]

An army that relies on conscripts in bulk, can't afford the level of training we have.
We have a smaller force, so we rely on fancy weapons, and on a highly trained force.

Whenever I hear people talk about "bring back the draft", so that people can understand, I shake my head NO.
You'd just dilute the training and weapons $/person.
And many of those forced, would just get in the way.


Even in the navy, repairs that in the US are done by Petty Officers or even seamen, are done by officers in the Russian Navy.
The Russian Navy's conscripts are less trained.

A professional fighting force is a WORLD of difference away from a conscript "peasantry" fighting force.

I still think there'd be an application for the draft for logistical purposes, such as CDL drivers for driving. Just not a mass fighting force draft.

 

[Tombs]

Haven't they got anything bigger?

There's not much purpose for 16" guns, ships aren't clad in feet of armor anymore.

And why spent all the weight, size, and man power to fire 16" guns when you could have that space taken up by missiles that are pretty close to a reliable one shot kill. While those guns were accurate, they were no where near as accurate as a missile. Those missiles can also be used against planes or ground targets.

 

[actaeon277]

Battleships are dinosaurs.
They tie up too much resources, and can only be in the one place.
Equipment is outdated and most of the manufacturers went out of business decades ago.
Working on that much armor is a copper plated B****.

They already have to deal with aircraft carriers tying up resources.
But they still need destroyers, cruisers, subs, and support vessels to deal with all the different places.
Throw in 4 BBs, and you'll tie up manpower for 4 CVs.
And the maintenance for probably 8 CVs.


Big guns and armor are great, don't get me wrong.
But we aren't bringing back Knights in Armor for the same reason we don't bring the BBs back.

 

[actaeon277]

There's not much purpose for 16" guns, ships aren't clad in feet of armor anymore.

And why spent all the weight, size, and man power to fire 16" guns when you could have that space taken up by missiles that are pretty close to a reliable one shot kill. While those guns were accurate, they were no where near as accurate as a missile. Those missiles can also be used against planes or ground targets.

Not to mention, look up Iowa Class Battleships and torpedo defenses.
Battleship New Jersey has a great youtube channel and discussed this.
They can't outrun the torps, or evade them.
And while one won't kill it, attack subs going after them would have AT LEAST dozens of torps.
Each torp is a complex million dollar weapon designed to take out targets.

 

[actaeon277]

A professional fighting force is a WORLD of difference away from a conscript "peasantry" fighting force.

I still think there'd be an application for the draft for logistical purposes, such as CDL drivers for driving. Just not a mass fighting force draft.

Do you think that would "teach" them anything.
They'd tell everyone how they understand everything, and how if THEY were in command or in the fighting the stuff would be over.
Meanwhile, they'd absorb resources.

And a lot of transport is already handled by a voluntary Reserve.

Today's force makes up something like less than 1 percent of the population.
So, if you were to make it mandatory for everyone for a limited time, you'd be dividing the available $/recruit by 100.
More people mean more supplies in a military where the tail already wags the dog.
More supplies needs more people to move.
The more people would need more supplies.

Granted, there is a tipping point.
An all out, NON-nuclear fight against Russia or China, is not going to be done by a small force.