Rule Number One: All Guns are always loaded

[SubicWarrior1988]

You don't have to agree with what I consider a safe direction, you may restrict your options much further than I do. We are each responsible for anything we send that direction. You can drive around with a bucket of sand in your car to aim at if it makes you more comfortable to do so.



Shoot, fire, pull the trigger, these are synonyms in this context. You can do them with or without a cartridge in the gun. You can do it with a dummy or proving cartridge if you like. If I have it pointed in a safe direction, I am actually ready for it to SHOOT, I've simply taken steps to prevent it sending a bullet out of the muzzle.
Ready to shoot obviously means something more than ready to shoot to you.



Since these are rules of safe gun handling, I think we can make the leap to assume that it will apply to the gun we are handling regardless of ownership.

If you are handling my million dollars, please handle it responsibly. No, you don't necessarily get to keep it, but while it is in your possession, please try to keep it away from fire and the Clinton Foundation. Thanks.

Excellent post, we are striving for the same thing. For the record, I DO see your point. It's akin to telling a kid there's a santa claus and then BAM, little Jimmy at school tells the kid the truth. What is real, what isn't real, what else is a parental ruse. I totally get it, especially with new shooters.

I'm old school and I'm going to dance with the girl that brung me. 4 rules for me.

 

[2A_Tom]

Why? Seriously why?

Because. You say it is because of the three rules. But, why.

My answer, because ND's happen. Why, because people treat guns as if they are unloaded when they are not, people trip with loaded guns, people get hot brass down their cleavage in essence people have accidents, are uncautious or disregard the 3 or 4 rules. It will never stop.

We need a Sticky for this thread so we can say shut up and go to the 3 or 4 rules compilation argument Sticky.

 

[crispy]

I'm old school and I'm going to dance with the girl that brung me. 4 rules for me.

So how do you feel walking in a gun store with all those LOADED guns pointed at you?

 

[ATM]

Excellent post, we are striving for the same thing. For the record, I DO see your point. It's akin to telling a kid there's a santa claus and then BAM, little Jimmy at school tells the kid the truth. What is real, what isn't real, what else is a parental ruse. I totally get it, especially with new shooters.

I'm old school and I'm going to dance with the girl that brung me. 4 rules for me.

Good discussion, thank you.

 

[SubicWarrior1988]

So how do you feel walking in a gun store with all those LOADED guns pointed at you?

I'm intellectually honest and know that guns don't shoot themselves. However, if for some reason a GLock 17 gun jumps up from a stool and shoots me, it's a risk I'm willing to take.

 

[SubicWarrior1988]

Good discussion, thank you.

Yes sir, you know I respect you and your input is invaluable. thanks as well.

 

[JettaKnight]

Why? Seriously why?

Because. You say it is because of the three rules. But, why.

My answer, because ND's happen. Why, because people treat guns as if they are unloaded when they are not, people trip with loaded guns, people get hot brass down their cleavage in essence people have accidents, are uncautious or disregard the 3 or 4 rules. It will never stop.

We need a Sticky for this thread so we can say shut up and go to the 3 or 4 rules compilation argument Sticky.

This is exactly why we need to stop using Rule #1. Stop giving people excuses to ignore the other rules.

You yourself are implying that an unloaded gun can be treated differently than a loaded gun. Ergo, you don't believe in Rule #1. It's this logic, "it's unloaded so I can act differently", that gets people killed. Don't treat a gun differently based on it 'state of loadedness' and you don't get hurt.

 

[2A_Tom]

Next time a guy or gal fans me in a gun shop, I'll ash if they are a 3 or 4 rule guy/gal.

If they say, huh. I'll just shrug and walk away.

 

[crispy]

I'm intellectually honest and know that guns don't shoot themselves. However, if for some reason a GLock 17 gun jumps up from a stool and shoots me, it's a risk I'm willing to take.

In other words, you know they're not loaded.

If there was truly a gun shop that kept every gun in the case loaded with one in the chamber, you (and I) would never go in that shop. Even though we know they're not going to shoot us on their own.

 

[crispy]

This is exactly why we need to stop using Rule #1. Stop giving people excuses to ignore the other rules.

You yourself are implying that an unloaded gun can be treated differently than a loaded gun. Ergo, you don't believe in Rule #1. It's this logic, "it's unloaded so I can act differently", that gets people killed. Don't treat a gun differently based on it 'state of loadedness' and you don't get hurt.

This is correct.

I found this article by searching. This guy pretty much sums up my thoughts.

https://plus.google.com/+ShawnWillden/posts/hP4CkvLcwa4

 

[SubicWarrior1988]

In other words, you know they're not loaded.

If there was truly a gun shop that kept every gun in the case loaded with one in the chamber, you (and I) would never go in that shop. Even though we know they're not going to shoot us on their own.

Incorrect, I do NOT know they are unloaded, that's why we assume they ARE loaded and safety check them prior to handling.

 

[JettaKnight]

I'm still very interested to hear from the Four Rules folks on my question in post #100.

If All Guns Are Always Loaded, then how can you justify dry firing a pistol is a crowded parking lot?

 

[SubicWarrior1988]

I'm still very interested to hear from the Four Rules folks on my question in post #100.

If All Guns Are Always Loaded, then how can you justify dry firing a pistol is a crowded parking lot?

The four rules are a mindset, not an algorithm.

 

[JettaKnight]

The four rules are a mindset, not an algorithm.

So... a mindset that bends and can be broken when deemed acceptable? This is news to me as I figured that the Four Rules were.... rules.


And how is this better than the NRA's Three Rules which are rules, not a mindset that allows for decision making and exceptions?

 

[indiucky]

If All Guns Are Always Loaded, then how can you justify dry firing a pistol is a crowded parking lot?

Or pointing at Klinger????

 

[JettaKnight]

Or pointing at Klinger????

You never cease to amaze me in what you can dig up.

 

[oldpink]

This only convinces me that it's impossible to get some people to even agree about the current time of day +/- five minutes.

 

[JettaKnight]

This only convinces me that it's impossible to get some people to even agree about the current time of day +/- five minutes.

Oh, now you really want to get ATM going huh?

 

[ATM]

Oh, now you really want to get ATM going huh?

 

[ATM]

This only convinces me that it's impossible to get some people to even agree about the current time of day +/- five minutes.

If you agree that pointing guns at people is the number one cause of people getting unintentionally shot, make a number one rule that instructs people to never do that unless they want someone shot.

If you agree that trigger pulls are the number one cause of shots being fired, make a number two rule that instructs people to not position themselves to pull it until they're ready to.

If you think that considering the gun loaded or unloaded has anything positive to add to those two preventative safety rules, make a suggestion number 27 at the bottom of the list to ensure that they followed the actual safe gun handling rules and prevented any tragedies from occurring long before they get to it and dismiss the rest.

Agree or disagree?