Rob Pincus (ICE) and James Yeager (Tactical Response) on Open Carry

[the1kidd03]

I don't OC and I don't advocate OC but I don't care if people do.

And what about those OCers that say CCers "hide" their guns?

(whew that's a lot of acronyms)

They DO "hide" their guns, hence "concealed carry"

 

[BCCS]

He wears Tapout apparel, all things that come out of his mouth are irrelevant...

 

[KG1]

What are the dates?

I does'nt matter. Pick a date. I won't be there.

 

[88GT]

I don't understand the draw time argument for OC. If the bad guy already has a weapon out and pointed at you, you are going to get shot trying to draw...from OC or CC. If you aren't the bad guy's focus and he has a weapon and isn't pointing it at you, whether you OC or CC, get to concealment/cover long enough to draw your weapon, (try to) control your breathing, move out and deliver rounds necessary to end the conflict. Either way the difference in draw time is not a significant factor.

Sometimes it's about more than mere tick-tocking. Every additional step that someone requires between determining it's firearm duty time and the actual presentation and usage of that firearm increases the chances for something to go wrong.

 

[Roadie]

I don't understand the draw time argument for OC. If the bad guy already has a weapon out and pointed at you, you are going to get shot trying to draw...from OC or CC. If you aren't the bad guy's focus and he has a weapon and isn't pointing it at you, whether you OC or CC, get to concealment/cover long enough to draw your weapon, (try to) control your breathing, move out and deliver rounds necessary to end the conflict. Either way the difference in draw time is not a significant factor.

If your logic was sound, cops would CC...

 

[Roadie]

I don't OC and I don't advocate OC but I don't care if people do.

And what about those OCers that say CCers "hide" their guns?

(whew that's a lot of acronyms)

There may be a few OCers that criticize CCers, but from what I have read on this Forum alone, the majority of OCers dont bash CCers like CCers bash OCers..

 

[iChokePeople]

If your logic was sound, cops would CC...

The whole cops/mil thing... If you're in uniform and everyone who sees you would assume that you have a gun, that kind of kills the cc thing, no?

 

[Roadie]

The whole cops/mil thing... If you're in uniform and everyone who sees you would assume that you have a gun, that kind of kills the cc thing, no?

But why did Cops START open carrying in the first place? Why did Handgun carry start in the open in the first place? Ease of use. Period.

 

[04DarkShadowGT]

If your logic was sound, cops would CC...

Something tells me the uniform may give away the fact a cop has a gun. Not really the same situation wouldnt ypu say? I mean i get you are trying to olster your point and all but you can do better.

 

[04DarkShadowGT]

But why did Cops START open carrying in the first place? Why did Handgun carry start in the open in the first place? Ease of use. Period.

Comfort is my guess, cops have so much other stuff its easier to put the gun on the big belt with everything else.

 

[Roadie]

Comfort is my guess, cops have so much other stuff its easier to put the gun on the big belt with everything else.

I would count comfort as part of "ease of use" as well. And, comfort is one of the reasons I sometimes OC...

 

[iChokePeople]

But why did Cops START open carrying in the first place? Why did Handgun carry start in the open in the first place? Ease of use. Period.

I'm not sure I can even reply now that you pronounced the "period"... But I think it was just the default... But wasn't there. I could ask my mother in law. If you're already wearing a blue uniform or a big tin star, cc isn't even a question. Ask the obvious next question: why do so many law enforcement types who aren't in uniform choose to cc when it's clearly such a tactical disadvantage...?

ETA: to be clear, I don't care in the least how anyone else carries, and think it's logical for OC to be the default. It's the default for me, too -- I OC unless *I* have reasons to conceal my gun. If I'm working around the house, I generally OC. When I go out in public, I cc because I don't want ANYONE to come and talk to me about it, ask me about it, look at me, etc. As far as the idea that OCers don't care and only the cc crowd throws stones, I've been chastised right here on INGO for saying about what I just said about choosing to cc.

 

[Roadie]

I'm not sure I can even reply now that you pronounced the "period"... But I think it was just the default... But wasn't there. I could ask my mother in law. If you're already wearing a blue uniform or a big tin star, cc isn't even a question. Ask the obvious next question: why do so many law enforcement types who aren't in uniform choose to cc when it's clearly such a tactical disadvantage...?

OK. Mea Culpa, the "period" was a little much

"So many cc"? Just curious at how you arrive at that.. Are you talking off duty, undercover, plainclothes, detectives..

 

[iChokePeople]

OK. Mea Culpa, the "period" was a little much

"So many cc"? Just curious at how you arrive at that.. Are you talking off duty, undercover, plainclothes, detectives..

I think undercover falls into the same sort of thing as uniformed, not really even a choice. The others, yes. And if you object to "so many" because it calls for quantification that I can't provide, make it "any" or "quite a few". But I think you'd have to concede that it's pretty common...

 

[KG1]

I think undercover falls into the same sort of thing as uniformed, not really even a choice. The others, yes. And if you object to "so many" because it calls for quantification that I can't provide, make it "any" or "quite a few". But I think you'd have to concede that it's pretty common...

Not to mention that off duty cc is mandated by alot of depts.

 

[elliotle]

If your logic was sound, cops would CC...

Of course, cops are routinely killed by their own firearms each year due to the retention issues inherent in OC. As others have posted, tradition and the nature of uniformed carry explain police OC. However, as a nonuniformed carrier, I personally prefer CC. You never hear of someone properly CCing who loses retention of their firearm before they can present it. If they did...well they wouldn't have been CCing.

Also, I'm OCing right now...at home. Because a home invader should expect that I am armed anyway, thus losing key benefits of CCing.

 

[hooky]

Of course, cops are routinely killed by their own firearms each year due to the retention issues inherent in OC. As others have posted, tradition and the nature of uniformed carry explain police OC. However, as a nonuniformed carrier, I personally prefer CC. You never hear of someone properly CCing who loses retention of their firearm before they can present it. If they did...well they wouldn't have been CCing.

Also, I'm OCing right now...at home. Because a home invader should expect that I am armed anyway, thus losing key benefits of CCing.

How many cops are killed each year with their own gun after having it taken away from them by the shooter?

 

[HICKMAN]

Not trying to pick on you , but he pretty much makes his opinion clear in the video .

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCy8MpT45gk"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCy8MpT45gk[/ame]

 

[iChokePeople]

Not to mention that off duty cc is mandated by alot of depts.

Ok, rephrase: why do ANY FBI or secret service agents, on duty, choose to conceal?

But really the point of my post was only that the frequent example of "cops and soldiers OC, so it is clearly the best tactical choice" is not really applicable. The conditions Are different. When you remove those obvious differences (uniforms, badges, and cars that go woopwoop), the argument crumbles, because many of THOSE cops and soldiers choose to conceal.

 

[KG1]

Ok, rephrase: why do ANY FBI or secret service agents, on duty, choose to conceal?

But really the point of my post was only that the frequent example of "cops and soldiers OC, so it is clearly the best tactical choice" is not really applicable. The conditions Are different. When you remove those obvious differences (uniforms, badges, and cars that go woopwoop), the argument crumbles, because many of THOSE cops and soldiers choose to conceal.

Well I agree that it does'nt make much sense to conceal if everything else you wear designates you as LE.