Reason Magazine openly advocates forced vaccination

[mdmayo]

Correlation does not imply causation. There are many other reasons why it could have jumped.

 

[mdmayo]

Have you heard of chicken pox parties?

Reference "Ookie Mouth"

 

[steveh_131]

More stupidity from Bailey.

He backpedals on the sub-heading, pretends that he's trying to encourage 'thought', and then comes to the exact same conclusion:

In the case of vaccination, the non-aggression principle, the harm principle, and proper respect for the autonomy of others combine to point to the libertarian conclusion that the intentionally unvaccinated do not have a right to “swing” their microbes at other people.

What conclusions can possibly be drawn from this statement?

1. Coerced vaccination is an acceptable libertarian philosophy, or
2. Coerced quarantine of the unvaccinated is an acceptable libertarian philosophy.

I see no other possible conclusions to draw from this.

The editor/author of the sub-heading apparently came to the same conclusion as I did from the text of the article.

 

[88GT]

More stupidity from Bailey.

He backpedals on the sub-heading, pretends that he's trying to encourage 'thought', and then comes to the exact same conclusion:



What conclusions can possibly be drawn from this statement?

1. Coerced vaccination is an acceptable libertarian philosophy, or
2. Coerced quarantine of the unvaccinated is an acceptable libertarian philosophy.

I see no other possible conclusions to draw from this.

The editor/author of the sub-heading apparently came to the same conclusion as I did from the text of the article.

Agreed. I am trying to figure out how Reason can't be coming down on one side or the other when it makes a statement akin to "coerced vaccinations are okay."


And since when did making a public appearance amount to "swinging microbes" at others? What if I don't know I'm infected? Or what if I think I'm better and no longer infectious? Do I have to get a doctor's permission? Who is this doctor that he has the power/authority to compel me to stay home?

 

[rambone]

Forced quarantine, or a pragmatic argument for indefinite detention

"It is unclear if Singer wants to actually criminalize disease, or if he wants to imprison sick people outside of law, indefinitely, without due process. Either way, the implications are profound and dangerous to liberty. That did not stop Bailey from heartily agreeing..."


Reason Magazine advocates forced vaccination... and forced quarantine | Police State USA

 

[MisterChester]

This has NSFW language, but it gets the point across.

[video=youtube_share;lhk7-5eBCrs]http://youtu.be/lhk7-5eBCrs[/video]

 

[steveh_131]

This has NSFW language, but it gets the point across.

Are all of the Penn and Teller videos this bad? That was the most useless, uninformative pro-vaccination (or any other type) video that I've ever seen.

Vaccines cause autism? NO THEY DON'T. Check-mate.

The 'nuh-uh' tactic does not work well in reasonable debates.

 

[Dean C.]

Dang I just saw that video on reddit. But while I do agree with vaccinations, I do not agree with forced or coerced vaccinations. Everyone should know the risks and benefits associated with vaccines make their decisions accordingly.

Here is a big boy version of what penn and teller were saying in the video. MMR vaccine controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia And I know wikipedia and such but hey this is the internet.

 

[Bunnykid68]

Are all of the Penn and Teller videos this bad? That was the most useless, uninformative pro-vaccination (or any other type) video that I've ever seen.

Vaccines cause autism? NO THEY DON'T. Check-mate.

The 'nuh-uh' tactic does not work well in reasonable debates.

Not usually. I enjoyed their show Bull**** when it was on.

 

[steveh_131]

Here is a big boy version of what penn and teller were saying in the video. MMR vaccine controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia And I know wikipedia and such but hey this is the internet.

I certainly hope you realize that the intricacies of the dangers and benefits of vaccination goes far, far beyond a single paper that was published 15 years ago about a single possible link to a single problem.

This argument is as irrational as it is popular.

Vaccines can cause harm.

No. they can't cause harm.

How do you know?

Because one guy 15 years ago claimed that they had a link to a certain intestinal issue that seemed to be linked to autism spectrum disorders, but he was discredited.

We're trying to prove a negative (impossible) by pointing to one failed attempt to prove one of the infinite number of potential risks?

 

[Dean C.]

Very true very true.

 

[steveh_131]

Very true very true.

that was unexpected.

here, have a rep!

 

[88GT]

LOL.

I can't believe this thread is still breathing. It must have been vaccinated. Or is it that it wasn't vaccinated.

 

[MisterChester]

So where is the proof that you're better off without being vaccinated?

 

[rambone]

So where is the proof that you're better off without being vaccinated?

Where is the proof that you're better off without this product? Peer reviewed sources only please.

[video=youtube;E9_amg-Aos4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9_amg-Aos4[/video]

 

[steveh_131]

So where is the proof that you're better off without being vaccinated?

If only it was as black and white as the CDC would like us to believe.

I can't tell you what is best for you. I can tell you some factors that I considered, including some math I did in a prior thread:

There were 222 reported cases of measles in the U.S. in 2011. We will ignore the fact that most of those were acquired while traveling abroad. With a total population of approximately 311 million, this comes out to a 0.0000713% change of catching measles in the U.S.

Now if we factor in the 0.3% mortality rate, we are left with 0.0000000214% chance of dying from a measles infection.

This number is so minuscule that I'm not even going to bother factoring in the actual efficacy of the measles vaccine, which we all know to be far below 100%.

On the other hand, there are plenty of people in my area alone who have suffered neurological damage caused by vaccinations.

Make your choice.

 

[MisterChester]

What kind of neurological damage? What were the vaccines? I just find it very unlikely you know of "plenty of people" in your area that suffered neurological damage from vaccinations. Is it possible? Sure, but to say they've all gotten it from vaccinations seems really unlikely.

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

So where is the proof that you're better off without being vaccinated?

Peer reviewed , empirical proof , IDK .

However from my own experience , I was made to eat all manner of vial vegetables and whole milk in copious quantities as a child , had the usual (late 70's early 80's) school vaccinations , had the usual ones you get from the Army , haven't had one since and have NEVER had a broken bone or cavity .

I got the flu this year (put me down for a week and a half) for the first time in years and don't go to the doctor for anything other than the required DOT physicals .

I've smoked a pack of reds a day for over 20 years and used to drink pretty heavily .

There's always gonna be some smuck to come along and tell you that " correlation doesn't mean causation" but to me the proof is in the experience , NOT a lab test .

 

[steveh_131]

What kind of neurological damage? What were the vaccines? I just find it very unlikely you know of "plenty of people" in your area that suffered neurological damage from vaccinations. Is it possible? Sure, but to say they've all gotten it from vaccinations seems really unlikely.

It happens. I have interacted with several on some regional facebook groups. Things like seizures and worse.

Even the CDC acknowledges that vaccines can, and do, cause this damage.

 

[dirtfarmerz]

What kind of neurological damage? What were the vaccines? I just find it very unlikely you know of "plenty of people" in your area that suffered neurological damage from vaccinations. Is it possible? Sure, but to say they've all gotten it from vaccinations seems really unlikely.

The Doctor in the first link believes that "plenty of people" have autism from vaccinations. The second link is a mother's story of her child developing autism after getting the MMR vaccine. The third link is for the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP). If vaccines are so harmless, why was the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act of 1986 passed. The fourth link shows some of the compensation for injuries.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7kbWfsygG4

MMR Vaccine and Autism - A Mother's Journey to Heal Her Child - Personal Stories - Vaccination Risk Awareness Network

Vaccine Injury Compensation ? National Vaccine Information Center

Statistics Reports