Progressive & Performance Collision Center ripping me off.

[thunderchicken]

Yeah the first shop couldn't see anything wrong and basically said the car runs just fine. They say it started right up when they had it brought back in.

As far as the key thing goes do you see it being an issue caused by the new wiring harness? Or is it just a magically coincidental event that this "bad non oem key" worked perfectly fine for 1.5 years and then after the new harness comes in with whatever else too it just stops working.

Would they have to reprogram even an oem key replacing a while wiring harness or?

It very well may have run fine when they started it & brought it back in. On a cold start up, the parameters the computer picks up can be limited. Oxygen sensors are great example. Even with heated oxygen sensors mostly used today, the computer basically ignores the data from them for a minute or two. So with the laptop hooked up looking at Oxygen sensors the data will look like the sensors aren't working until they are warm enough to work properly. So it's common for a problem to take some time before it shows it's ugly head after start up.
I have never had to reprogram or replace a programmed key because of a wiring harness or crash. The only times I have replaced a key are because it's no longer recognized by the computer or because someone tried to start the car too many times with a non chipped key basically putting the anti-theft system in lockout mode. In either case the car wouldn't start. The chip is for anti-theft so if it started with the key it was recognized and just using another programmed key would rule out any questions with the other key.
A harness is pretty much just disconnect the battery and then plug & play.
Even in the shop I work at, it happens where guys look at codes and jump to a conclusion without doing basic diagnostics. Sometimes a part will be thrown at it based only on an education guess. I call that loading the parts cannon. Then maybe they just aren't thinking things through and think oh it could be ___ and want to throw another part at it (been there dine that)...this leads to shooting the parts cannon and throwing parts at a problem rather than using wiring diagrams and flow charts for codes to pinpoint the problem.
Always start with checking fuses and connectors especially if you know stuff has been unplugged.

 

[thunderchicken]

I can tell you, being on the shop side of the equation, they'd be silly to not try to take care of you. I can't imagine any reason that if the damage, or problem, was caused by the accident damage, that they wouldn't take care of it. I try to go the extra mile for all of my customers.

I take offense to your comment. Judging from your post, I'd guess you are, or were, a mechanic. That would be like me classifying most all mechanics as a bunch of backwoods hillbillies, that don't know what they are doing. Sure, there are some shops that do suck, but most of us mom and pop shops are here trying to support our families and be good citizens of our communities.

It wasn't personal but take it how you may. Based on my many years in the industry and repairing many vehicles that "just came back from the body shop" (many different shops) I have shared some of that experience here. Sometimes a shop owner or manager doesn't know how bad some of the work their guys put out until it starts coming back.
There are good, bad and ugly on both sides of our industry

 

[COOPADUP]

The industry is in rough shape compared to years past. Just getting parts is a hurdle. Makes the shops look bad when it’s not in their control.

 

[DDadams]

SO - thank you all so far.

Update - I got the car back from the dealer now and paid for the key out of pocket while I try to fight insurance for the money.

They said it wasn't the sensors and was the key causing it, right?


My car died at the same exact light again. All the same lights came on.

And neither the adjustor nor his supervisor will answer, they wouldn't yesterday, and this morning. No reply to my messages or calls back or even answering and saying I'm on my own.


I really think at this point it may be worth the money to get a lawyer involved.

 

[DDadams]

The industry is in rough shape compared to years past. Just getting parts is a hurdle. Makes the shops look bad when it’s not in their control.

That's true.

But the thing is that's not the issue here.

I wasn't mad that it took 3.5 months. I understand everything is messed up right now.

But giving me a car that keeps dying and with stuff broken that wasn't broken even in the accident and saying "well it wasn't in the pictures we took when we got it" and not being able to conclude that THEY caused it over that 3.5 month period is making them look bad.

 

[bobzilla]

I can tell you that diagnostics and mechanical work like that is outsourced to whatever dealer can get them in. Finding a competent dealer that can actually diagnose is difficult in good times. Now? Don’t get me started.

 

[Jaybird1980]

That's true.

But the thing is that's not the issue here.

I wasn't mad that it took 3.5 months. I understand everything is messed up right now.

But giving me a car that keeps dying and with stuff broken that wasn't broken even in the accident and saying "well it wasn't in the pictures we took when we got it" and not being able to conclude that THEY caused it over that 3.5 month period is making them look bad.

About how long does it drive before it craps out?

Also what year and model?

 

[DDadams]

About how long does it drive before it craps out?

Also what year and model?

It's random. I got it running again yesterday but the other night it wouldn't budge.

The first time it drove about 4 hours and died when it started raining really heavy.

Yesterday it drove from the dealer home in heavy rain and died at the same exact spot in the rain. About 20 minute drive.

I'm not sure if the water is causing it? I told them both at the shop and dealer to spray the engine bay down because it might be something loose on the harness but I doubt they did it.

It's a 2020 kia soul-less piece of sh...

I mean soul. Just soul.

 

[Jaybird1980]

It's random. I got it running again yesterday but the other night it wouldn't budge.

The first time it drove about 4 hours and died when it started raining really heavy.

Yesterday it drove from the dealer home in heavy rain and died at the same exact spot in the rain. About 20 minute drive.

I'm not sure if the water is causing it? I told them both at the shop and dealer to spray the engine bay down because it might be something loose on the harness but I doubt they did it.

It's a 2020 kia soul-less piece of sh...

I mean soul. Just soul.

Oh. An intermittent issue is one of the hardest things to narrow down. When you say 4 hrs I'm assuming that's not all continuous drive time. Any chance they were both approximately 20 minute of continuous runtime. Think mix of stop and go and some highway driving.

My thoughts are 20ish minute drive time could be finishing up a complete drive cycle. Some sensors are not fully monitored for performance until a drive cycle is completed. It could be just finishing this cycle when it discovers an error and puts it in limp mode/safety mode.

I'd be curious to what all codes are being thrown.

 

[tmcindy]

Go to Progressive & sock the adjuster in the stomach.

 

[DDadams]

Oh. An intermittent issue is one of the hardest things to narrow down. When you say 4 hrs I'm assuming that's not all continuous drive time. Any chance they were both approximately 20 minute of continuous runtime. Think mix of stop and go and some highway driving.

My thoughts are 20ish minute drive time could be finishing up a complete drive cycle. Some sensors are not fully monitored for performance until a drive cycle is completed. It could be just finishing this cycle when it discovers an error and puts it in limp mode/safety mode.

I'd be curious to what all codes are being thrown.

You literally nailed it.

The first time was 20 minutes on the way home. The second was exactly the same 20 minute drive.

But it was also raining HARD. Could the water be getting into something not connected right?


They said there were no codes thrown when they got it running. And when they got it to the dealership they said it threw the sensor codes but it was because of the key.

Now it's doing it with their new key. But today with no rain I've had no problems.

 

[Jaybird1980]

You literally nailed it.

The first time was 20 minutes on the way home. The second was exactly the same 20 minute drive.

But it was also raining HARD. Could the water be getting into something not connected right?


They said there were no codes thrown when they got it running. And when they got it to the dealership they said it threw the sensor codes but it was because of the key.

Now it's doing it with their new key. But today with no rain I've had no problems.

It could be moisture related or maybe not. It was raining the whole time and ran fine for 20 minutes right? The key deal sounds like a witch hunt to me. It's also pretty impossible for me to believe it went into limp mode and didn't throw any codes. Even if they weren't current codes they still would have had codes in the history.

If it was me I would look into what's needed to complete the drive cycle on your car. If I was to guess it's probably something like 8 hours of inactivity followed by at least 20 min of highway style driving, then 20 min of stop and go driving with a couple idle sessions like if you were at a red light. Complete this and see if it happens. If it doesn't then drive it again in the rain and see if it acts up then.

 

[HoughMade]

A wiring harness or ground issue sounds plausible.

The idea that a bunch of different sensors went bad all at once is far fetched.

You need to find a good auto diagnostician. They are few and far between. Too many "parts changers" these days and not enough mechanics.

 

[thunderchicken]

You literally nailed it.

The first time was 20 minutes on the way home. The second was exactly the same 20 minute drive.

But it was also raining HARD. Could the water be getting into something not connected right?


They said there were no codes thrown when they got it running. And when they got it to the dealership they said it threw the sensor codes but it was because of the key.

Now it's doing it with their new key. But today with no rain I've had no problems.

I call BS on what you were told. If it kicked on the check engine light while it was still running, it would have stored a code. The codes may not show up as pending when restarted though.

The only thing a key should have done is prevent the car from starting and may have tripped a code for an unrecognized key.

I'm still thinking fuse or ground issue as higher likelihood of the issue

 

[Jaybird1980]

Where was the car hit?

Which harness was changed?

So many possibilities with this it's crazy.

 

[Lpherr]

It could be moisture related or maybe not. It was raining the whole time and ran fine for 20 minutes right? The key deal sounds like a witch hunt to me. It's also pretty impossible for me to believe it went into limp mode and didn't throw any codes. Even if they weren't current codes they still would have had codes in the history.

If it was me I would look into what's needed to complete the drive cycle on your car. If I was to guess it's probably something like 8 hours of inactivity followed by at least 20 min of highway style driving, then 20 min of stop and go driving with a couple idle sessions like if you were at a red light. Complete this and see if it happens. If it doesn't then drive it again in the rain and see if it acts up then.

The cycle, wouldn't cause limp mode, or a stalling situation. The cycle is to re-train the computer, and is usually completed within 30 minutes. I would check the bulkhead connector, if it's happening in wet conditions.

 

[Jaybird1980]

The cycle, wouldn't cause limp mode, or a stalling situation. The cycle is to re-train the computer, and is usually completed within 30 minutes. I would check the bulkhead connector, if it's happening in wet conditions.

The completion of the cycle could easily put it into limp mode. Especially if it does a voltage check on something and fails.

 

[Lpherr]

The completion of the cycle could easily put it into limp mode. Especially if it does a voltage check on something and fails.

Oh OK. You're saying if there is an issue that triggers it. Gotcha!

 

[DDadams]

Where was the car hit?

Which harness was changed?

So many possibilities with this it's crazy.

Front. A guy ran a light turning and turned into me before basically stopping in front of me. So technically I hit him but he blew the light so..

I was going at least 30 still while on the brakes. I had nowhere to swerve at this intersection otherwise I would have avoided him.

The whole wiring harness was replaced as well as tons of other things. I don't even think they gave me the final paperwork - I got the car from the dealer and haven't even been back to performance out of fear I'll strangle someone.

 

[Jaybird1980]

Oh OK. You're saying if there is an issue that triggers it. Gotcha!

Yes. What if doing a voltage test on a system is the last part of the cycle and then bam an open or short to ground is found or just low reference voltage because of a poor ground.