IF YOU’RE NOT DOING ANYTHING WRONG YOU DON’T HAVE ANYTHING TO WORRY ABOUT!If I want to do a 4473 I will buy the gun from the FFL 1st hand. And I dont have to show my permit for that either, I am not sharing personal info with a person I may have just met and it can go on. The state of Indiana does not require it so I will not lay down any more paper than required. No paper is just fine with me.
I dont care if anyone does or does not understand. No knock as we all have our ways we do business.
I concur, we each have our own way of wanting to do business.If I want to do a 4473 I will buy the gun from the FFL 1st hand. And I dont have to show my permit for that either, I am not sharing personal info with a person I may have just met and it can go on. The state of Indiana does not require it so I will not lay down any more paper than required. No paper is just fine with me.
I dont care if anyone does or does not understand. No knock as we all have our ways we do business.
I agree...PM's to work out details and price based on final inspection!I always use PM's to settle the details and meetup. They always end with price agreed to on final inspection. Never had an issue with INGO members who have been very reasonable.
Don
If the federal government sent you a 'request' to list every firearm you own, would you comply?This is what I thought was right according to the forum rules and even State rules. Yes, even for IN carry, good idea. When I've used FFL for transfer, think it was only about $15. Just wanted to get a feel from board members as I recently notices a WTT that I had interest in.
You wouldn't do a trade through a FFL, for any reason? What is wrong with the use of paperwork? Acquiring a new firearm and concealed permits have identifying paperwork already. I don't understand exactly.
What about if said firearm is from a C&R holder?If I want to do a 4473 I will buy the gun from the FFL 1st hand. And I dont have to show my permit for that either, I am not sharing personal info with a person I may have just met and it can go on. The state of Indiana does not require it so I will not lay down any more paper than required. No paper is just fine with me.
I dont care if anyone does or does not understand. No knock as we all have our ways we do business.
I cannot speak for CM, but to me that would be the same as going to a gun shop.What about if said firearm is from a C&R holder?
Exactly!Unless, of course, FedGov decides to retroactively change the definition of what's 'wrong'View attachment 144457
I kind of see your point but across state lines it has to go FFL.If the federal government sent you a 'request' to list every firearm you own, would you comply?
If not, why would you do the same thing, just one at a time
It is a pushback against an infringement abetted by individuals who think they're CYAing but are really just hanging themselves and others out in the breeze. If you don't trust people enough to sell or trade just seeing an LTCH then you should not sell or trade to them at all
The difference is, buying or selling out of state is against the law.I've sold from Indiana into Illinois, and I did it through an FFL dealer.
It's federal law.
I'd imagine what motivated the buyer was a good price.
Personally, would I buy one from Illinois into Indiana through an FFL?
If I wanted the gun badly enough and the price was right, yep. Why not? ATFE already has my info on god knows how many 4473s anyway. What's one more at this point?
Within in Indiana ... what's the point? No legal requirement.
Not to speak for Bug, but my take on what he is saying is not that it is less or more infringement either way, it is "why?". Why should we submit ourselves to something that is not required of us? Why should we voluntarily give out info when we don't have to, on anything, not just talking about gun transfers here.I kind of see your point but across state lines it has to go FFL.
So if you sell someone a firearm on GunBroker, and it's shipped FFL to FFL, then you're saying that's less infringement than individual to individual transfer at a FFL? Or just the fact that FTF doesn't require paperwork and sellers prefer that?. Trying to learn here, seems like a warm topic.
Oh ok. Yes, not needed with IN FTF and people value their freedoms. I know IN considered it, but I'm seeing a few more states with constitutional carry and nullification laws.Not to speak for Bug, but my take on what he is saying is not that it is less or more infringement either way, it is "why?". Why should we submit ourselves to something that is not required of us? Why should we voluntarily give out info when we don't have to, on anything, not just talking about gun transfers here.
Read Edward Snowden's "Permanent Record" and get back with me about how innocent and innocuous our gov't is.
ETA: not arguing here about proper transfer across state lines requires FFL.
pm sent....lol
Right. That's why I met the dude at an Illinois gun store, got my receipt from that FFL holder and went on my way. Just as soon not have federales in my life.The difference is, buying or selling out of state is against the law.
Whereas, private sales to in state Indiana residents are legal without a 4473, as long as you have no reason to believe the person is a person prohibited from owning firearms, AND the seller has NOT shown a pattern of buying and selling firearms for profit in a way that resembles dealing in firearms without an FFL.
For example, somebody who buys a lot of firearms and quickly resells them for a profit, could have the ATF people showing up at their door.
THAT SAID, I wouldn't fill out a 4473 with an FFL to buy or sell a firearm on INGO with an Indiana resident and proper person. YMMV
Others are free to demand a 4473 for this, and I will just move on and deal with somebody else.
The ONLY exception to this I've ever made is with a good guy here on INGO who has a C&R FFL, and when he bought a C&R firearm from me as I sell off my collection, he gave me a copy of his C&R FFL, and he logged the acquisition in his logbook, which by law he has to.
Prior posting led me to believe we were not talking about across state lines, where you are correct an FFL is neededI kind of see your point but across state lines it has to go FFL.
FTF requires no paperwork as long as you both live in that state. Many buyers, traders or sellers, myself included, prefer to have a full accounting of what they own known only to themselves due to a lack of trust in the government's good will toward gun ownershipSo if you sell someone a firearm on GunBroker, and it's shipped FFL to FFL, then you're saying that's less infringement than individual to individual transfer at a FFL? Or just the fact that FTF doesn't require paperwork and sellers prefer that?. Trying to learn here, seems like a warm topic.