Pentagon to start dismantling military's transgender ban Monday

[Gluemanz28]

You decide

I'm thinking I lived in a different part of Alabama than you did

 

[IndyDave1776]

Those who have not served don't understand unit cohesion and how fragile it can be.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Birds Away again.

I am inclined to believe, given that there are people who have not served and understand this quite well, that the problem isn't understanding, but rather willful ignorance of truth that stands opposed to the narrative.

 

[2A_Tom]

I'm just glad i'm done.

 

[Thor]

I am inclined to believe, given that there are people who have not served and understand this quite well, that the problem isn't understanding, but rather willful ignorance of truth that stands opposed to the narrative.

Or a willful desire to destroy the institution with full cognizance of their actions...and loyalty not to the republic to which they swore their oath.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Or a willful desire to destroy the institution with full cognizance of their actions...and loyalty not to the republic to with they swore their oath.

 

[ryknoll3]

So if you can't hack the physical requirements of basic training as a man, can you come back later as a "woman" and take the easier quals?

 

[oldpink]

The only way that this tomfoolery has even a remote chance for reversal is when the military women get the spine to object once they have their barracks, tents, and berthing spaces now taken over by guys who claim they're women trapped in men's bodies.
It would be interesting watching the totally compromised brass and civilian leadership try and go after the objectors.

 

[Grease]

So if you can't hack the physical requirements of basic training as a man, can you come back later as a "woman" and take the easier quals?

Yup just like with weight standards! I have seen tons (Literally TONS) of fat females in service that never get put on the fatboy program yet, when a guy is one pound over....look out, here comes the steam roller!

 

[2A_Tom]

I was actually one pound over and had a meeting with my CO to inform me that I would be enrolled in the program and a letter placed in my 201 file if i didn't take care of it immediately. I went to the medic who took one look at me and told me to go take a dump. I did, weighed in and was under maximum weight. I would like to say it was all muscle, but obviously I was just full of s***.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Which was not about an individual living their own reality, but about the military coming to grips with reality.

What was it when gays were allowed to openly serve?

Has that created the spiral of unit morale issues and lack of cohesion that it was predicted to?

Here's a thought. If you can't work with other soldiers because they are "X", then YOU are the problem with unit morale and cohesion, not them.

 

[OutdoorDad]

Private William T Santiago gave his life for this thread.

 

[actaeon277]

What was it when gays were allowed to openly serve?

Has that created the spiral of unit morale issues and lack of cohesion that it was predicted to?

Here's a thought. If you can't work with other soldiers because they are "X", then YOU are the problem with unit morale and cohesion, not them.

There are problems.
Because the military is closer to accepting it now than it was 20 years ago doesn't mean problems have disappeared.


5 LGBT Inequalities That Persist In The Military | ThinkProgress

Military suffers wave of ?gay? sex assaults

https://www.americanprogress.org/is...at-remain-military-service-and-lgbt-equality/

 

[oldpink]

There are problems.
Because the military is closer to accepting it now than it was 20 years ago doesn't mean problems have disappeared.


5 LGBT Inequalities That Persist In The Military | ThinkProgress

Military suffers wave of ?gay? sex assaults

https://www.americanprogress.org/is...at-remain-military-service-and-lgbt-equality/

But we must break reality to the saddle of social justice, maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnn!

 

[BehindBlueI's]

There are problems.
Because the military is closer to accepting it now than it was 20 years ago doesn't mean problems have disappeared.


5 LGBT Inequalities That Persist In The Military | ThinkProgress

Military suffers wave of ?gay? sex assaults

https://www.americanprogress.org/is...at-remain-military-service-and-lgbt-equality/

I'm sure. I'm also sure the integration of black soldiers didn't go without a hitch either, and some would argue there is still discrimination...but for the most part it's history and I don't think anyone today would argue that it was an overall bad thing.

Read your second article, and its a "good reason" to ban straight males from serving, since it says 88% of those sexually attacked were females. Or, perhaps, address the sexual assaults instead.

This is where the chain of command comes in. If you've got good leaders and good troop discipline, it is a non-issue if you like somebody or agree with somebody's decisions. There were people in my units I would never have voluntarily hung out with, and some that I actively disliked, and I'm sure there were people who disliked me. None of that got in the way of the mission, because that's the way we were and that's what was expected of us. I saw some units, particularly the chem unit was sometimes attached to us, that were constantly in some sort of drama because they had zero discipline and a pathetic commander who kept it that way.

If you can't work together with people who are different or who you dislike, you don't belong in the military. It's a team sport. If you can't serve without committing violence against your fellow soldiers, again, obviously you do not belong there. If you cannot keep unit morale and discipline among a troop base that is representative of the nation that they volunteer from, then you have no business leading troops to begin with because you are not a leader.

 

[oldpink]

I'm sure. I'm also sure the integration of black soldiers didn't go without a hitch either, and some would argue there is still discrimination...but for the most part it's history and I don't think anyone today would argue that it was an overall bad thing.

Read your second article, and its a "good reason" to ban straight males from serving, since it says 88% of those sexually attacked were females. Or, perhaps, address the sexual assaults instead.

This is where the chain of command comes in. If you've got good leaders and good troop discipline, it is a non-issue if you like somebody or agree with somebody's decisions. There were people in my units I would never have voluntarily hung out with, and some that I actively disliked, and I'm sure there were people who disliked me. None of that got in the way of the mission, because that's the way we were and that's what was expected of us. I saw some units, particularly the chem unit was sometimes attached to us, that were constantly in some sort of drama because they had zero discipline and a pathetic commander who kept it that way.

If you can't work together with people who are different or who you dislike, you don't belong in the military. It's a team sport. If you can't serve without committing violence against your fellow soldiers, again, obviously you do not belong there. If you cannot keep unit morale and discipline among a troop base that is representative of the nation that they volunteer from, then you have no business leading troops to begin with because you are not a leader.

And once we open the door further to allowing the following: furries, vampires, gender-fluid, otherkin, and anyone else who "identifies" as this or that to openly serve exactly as they identify, we can just blithely add that to list of things that our leadership must devote their resources to rather than how to kill bad guys and break their stuff.
Sorry, but to compare this current nonsense to something that had zero rational basis, i.e. racial segregration of the military, is just as nonsensical as having women inhabiting the same quarters as men.
What say we actually concentrate on winning battles and wars rather than catering to less than 1/10 of 1% of the population?

 

[IndyDave1776]

I would consider racial integration to be a more or less irrelevant comparison for one critical reason: Race is an innate characteristic as opposed to confusion regarding one's gender which is a delusional fantasy. The next logical step is to stop treating psychological disorders completely and the persons who exhibit them protected class status regardless of the specific nature.

 

[jamil]

I'm sure. I'm also sure the integration of black soldiers didn't go without a hitch either, and some would argue there is still discrimination...but for the most part it's history and I don't think anyone today would argue that it was an overall bad thing.

Read your second article, and its a "good reason" to ban straight males from serving, since it says 88% of those sexually attacked were females. Or, perhaps, address the sexual assaults instead.

This is where the chain of command comes in. If you've got good leaders and good troop discipline, it is a non-issue if you like somebody or agree with somebody's decisions. There were people in my units I would never have voluntarily hung out with, and some that I actively disliked, and I'm sure there were people who disliked me. None of that got in the way of the mission, because that's the way we were and that's what was expected of us. I saw some units, particularly the chem unit was sometimes attached to us, that were constantly in some sort of drama because they had zero discipline and a pathetic commander who kept it that way.

If you can't work together with people who are different or who you dislike, you don't belong in the military. It's a team sport. If you can't serve without committing violence against your fellow soldiers, again, obviously you do not belong there. If you cannot keep unit morale and discipline among a troop base that is representative of the nation that they volunteer from, then you have no business leading troops to begin with because you are not a leader.

People should treat people with mental illness with respect and dignity. They can't help that they're mentally ill. However, I'm not all that certain that mentally ill people should serve in the military.

 

[Thor]

If the country is really going to say that there are no morals worth recognizing, and folks can do what they want because, why are they still complaining about sexual assault? That would indicate that someone might get harmed when someone else is just fulfilling their destiny and being all that they can be.

When you choose to ignore that there are any lines which can not be crossed there are no lines that can not be crossed.

If you walk willingly into Xerxes little shop of horrors you don't get to complain when you get bit by some'thing' that was crawling around in there.

Personally, If I'm going to be bunking with and showering with others I'd like there to be some clearly identifiable lines. Some kind of social norms that let you close your eyes without having to wonder what might happen when you do...or wonder just what that thing is in the other bunk. The military is a place where some definite lines need to exist because for one thing members of the military have surrendered a good portion of free will to the discipline of the service. They can not choose who to associate with, who to bunk with, who (or now what) is going to walk into the shower next.

I think liberals actually love running the military. They can force whatever social horror they want on people and demand that those most effected respect it through the rank structure. Good practice for a dictatorship I guess.

 

[jamil]

I think liberals actually love running the military. They can force whatever social horror they want on people and demand that those most effected respect it through the rank structure. Good practice for a dictatorship I guess.

Kind of like your little sister gaining possession of your GI Joe bedazzling him.

 

[actaeon277]

People should treat people with mental illness with respect and dignity. They can't help that they're mentally ill. However, I'm not all that certain that mentally ill people should serve in the military.

But then there'd be no submariners.
(Only mentally ill people go on vessels that sink on purpose)