Obamacare: Say goodnight, Gracie...

[GodFearinGunTotin]

As T.Lex said, it depends if you think anything short of full repeal is just Obamacare 2.0.

I don't know why anyone would be surprised that this falls well short. A full repeal isn't legislatively possible. Among Republicans there are conservatives, moderates, and even a few liberals holding seats. They all have to go home to their conservative, moderate, and liberal districts, where public opinion widely varies. There is not wide public support for full repeal. There is overwhelming support for "fixing" healthcare. There is not a lot of support for any detailed definition of what "fixing" means. To me "fixing" means repealing Obamacare and whatever other laws restrict market based healthcare. But to some, "fixing" means single payer.

Call Pelosi and Reed whatever you want but they knew if they ever got this thing enacted, it'd never go away. Entitlements never do. At least they were willing to withstand to storm against this turd to get it passed...something "our side" is unwilling to do.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Obamacare could be repealed and this general problem would still exist. It's existed for at least 30 years.

Exactly. This is a large part of the problem. Until we attack why getting sick/injured costs so much, people will look to deep pockets elsewhere to pay for it.

 

[T.Lex]

Taxation is theft.

Not really theft if we agree to it (via the social contract with our elected legislators).

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Senate won't vote on House-passed healthcare bill

Senate Republicans said Thursday they won't vote on the House-passed bill to repeal and replace Obamacare, but will write their own legislation instead.

 

[KittySlayer]

I have confidence the Senate will muck this up.

That is probably what Michelle is whispering in Barack's ear as she has her manly arms wrapped around him comforting him now that his (perceived) legacy is falling apart.

 

[BugI02]

Yeah, and look where that got them.

Permawar and trillions of wasted resources.

So you're saying that NeoCons are just embryonic Sith?

 

[BugI02]

I'll take the "REPEALED" symbolism for now to take this from stopped to rolling. This is just the beginning, on top of whatever it might look like to get through the Senate.

I don't care for doing things in steps, but it seems to be the only way to get rid of the stupid . "Preexisting" and "26 year old kids" is gonna have to go, albeit a little at a time.

We need a win, we'll take this for now...

I still would feel much better if it was two seperate bills. 1) clean repeal - unambiguous and should not require arcane language or have much (any) room to crawfish 2) Republicare (since this part will be sewn together, Frankenstein-like, by our elected representatives. Shouldn't be Trumpcare unless Trump team drafts it and the legislature votes on it without amendment) with all the dirty, awkward, back room deal making that congress is known for, but everyone theoretically knowing the clock is ticking

 

[BugI02]

Well, I think shame on them. If they need insurance, but failed to get it, it's their fault.

In BugICare, this would be encouraged with real consequences. After a suitable but short period of adjustment, all hospitals would be empowered to turn away people from the ER who can't pay. The unlucky and unprepared can die or have other undesirable outcomes. Hospitals who choose to treat anyone can pay for it themselves out of donations/endowment

The flipside would be an effort to keep health insurance affordable by limiting insurance company maximum payout so they can apply actuarial rigor, and the small percentage of patients who need more are shunted into a federal program like medicaid (provided they had insurance until they maxed out). If you would rather always have the latest iPhone rather than have health insurance - its a free country and you made an informed choice

 

[actaeon277]

In BugICare, this would be encouraged with real consequences. After a suitable but short period of adjustment, all hospitals would be empowered to turn away people from the ER who can't pay. The unlucky and unprepared can die or have other undesirable outcomes. Hospitals who choose to treat anyone can pay for it themselves out of donations/endowment

The flipside would be an effort to keep health insurance affordable by limiting insurance company maximum payout so they can apply actuarial rigor, and the small percentage of patients who need more are shunted into a federal program like medicaid (provided they had insurance until they maxed out). If you would rather always have the latest iPhone rather than have health insurance - its a free country and you made an informed choice

That's one of my problems with people that tell me they "can't afford insurance".
Yet I see them with cell phones, multiple TVs, multiple computers, multiple cars.

There are the truly destitute that can not afford it. People that live on the street, or in a shelter.
Those people can not afford it.

 

[BugI02]

This is a big deal. I understand why so many want to preserve this. We are in the paradigm that insurance or government must pay for medical care because of its expense so we try to rearrange the deck chairs trying to figure out who we can get covered and all that goes along with socializing insurance coverage. There's got to be things we can do to bring costs down. It'd be one thing to insure ourselves for catastrophic events like a cancer diagnosis or a heart problem. It's another thing that we can't afford typical prescriptions, office visits, and run of the mill tests we get to figure out if we have more pedestrian illnesses. As long as we remain in this insurance-pays-for-everything-medically-related paradigm, this is never going to end.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...wo-charts-explain-why/?utm_term=.7f6c95ebfa6c

We spend $750 billion on unnecessary health care. Two charts explain why.

 

[BugI02]

As T.Lex said, it depends if you think anything short of full repeal is just Obamacare 2.0.

I don't know why anyone would be surprised that this falls well short. A full repeal isn't legislatively possible. Among Republicans there are conservatives, moderates, and even a few liberals holding seats. They all have to go home to their conservative, moderate, and liberal districts, where public opinion widely varies. There is not wide public support for full repeal. There is overwhelming support for "fixing" healthcare. There is not a lot of support for any detailed definition of what "fixing" means. To me "fixing" means repealing Obamacare and whatever other laws restrict market based healthcare. But to some, "fixing" means single payer.

Is 'fixing' healthcare like 'fixing' the climate, where the preferred solution is to direct high pressure money hoses on the problem while resisting any forms of accountability or efficacy standards?

 

[BugI02]

Senate won't vote on House-passed healthcare bill

Because its hard to have a cluster**** without the cluster

 

[ArcadiaGP]

I'm betting today's super awkward celebration and Rose Garden presser was designed to convince people that Obamacare was actually repealed (it wasn't).

It seemed aimed at confusing people... and I'm thinking that's going to backfire.

 

[drillsgt]

That's one of my problems with people that tell me they "can't afford insurance".
Yet I see them with cell phones, multiple TVs, multiple computers, multiple cars.

There are the truly destitute that can not afford it. People that live on the street, or in a shelter.
Those people can not afford it.

Exactly, it's not really a matter of not being able to afford it but that other things are priority. Somewhere along the line people got the idea that paying for health care was not a real expense. How many times do you get bills from the doctor in the mail and then just set them aside until you feel like paying them but you pay say the electric bill on time, one is seen as a real expense and the other as some nebulous bill. Paying the mechanic for a car repair is more concrete to many people than paying the doctor for their service.

 

[actaeon277]

Exactly, it's not really a matter of not being able to afford it but that other things are priority. Somewhere along the line people got the idea that paying for health care was not a real expense. How many times do you get bills from the doctor in the mail and then just set them aside until you feel like paying them but you pay say the electric bill on time, one is seen as a real expense and the other as some nebulous bill. Paying the mechanic for a car repair is more concrete to many people than paying the doctor for their service.

The most important things in life (at least for me) is 1 Food, 2 Shelter, 3 Health.
If I want guns, ammo, video games, sports equipment, etc. those come out AFTER the first 3 are paid.
So, people want free food, homes, healthcare.
Tell me, why is it I'm working?

 

[BugI02]

Yer doin' it wrong

Kid works for us (another dept. thankfully) has four kids with three women. Married to none lives with #3. Gov't pays for all or most of their basic needs (he just lives with her so his income doesn't count against her benefits) Food, Shelter, Medical. They pay no taxes but get a huge tax return, which they immediately squander (Disney World this year). He just spent $4500 for +2s and tires for his Exploder and has a new, top of the line smart phone seemingly every 6mos. Always streaming something so doesn't seem to be data limited, either

You and i work because we just couldn't live that way. Some kids today, not so much

 

[actaeon277]

Yer doin' it wrong

Kid works for us (another dept. thankfully) has four kids with three women. Married to none lives with #3. Gov't pays for all or most of their basic needs (he just lives with her so his income doesn't count against her benefits) Food, Shelter, Medical. They pay no taxes but get a huge tax return, which they immediately squander (Disney World this year). He just spent $4500 for +2s and tires for his Exploder and has a new, top of the line smart phone seemingly every 6mos. Always streaming something so doesn't seem to be data limited, either

You and i work because we just couldn't live that way. Some kids today, not so much

This is why so many people are mad.

 

[hoosierdoc]

why wasn't Roe V Wade sentencing tens of millions to death but removing SOME government intrusion into healthcare is?

 

[bwframe]

I still would feel much better if it was two seperate bills...

I totally agree, but this is what we got. We could be arguing to get nothing for the next four years, the same as we have the past 3 months.

We'll see what the Senate does with this. Might actually turn into something more favorable.

The other side of it, could turn into the straw that breaks Joe Donnelly's back? Maybe some squishy R's across the country also?

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

why wasn't Roe V Wade sentencing tens of millions to death but removing SOME government intrusion into healthcare is?

Because they consider abortion to be medical care and medical care is considered to be a basic human right. And rather than question why healthcare is so expensive, they simply demand someone else pay for it. And government is the one with the power to force people to help pay.