Obama: The Constitution is "flawed"

[Paul]

Did the rich heirs "earn" that money? Most wealth is passed down.

From their parents or family. NOT THE GOVERNMENT!!!

 

[Episcopus]

From their parents or family. NOT THE GOVERNMENT!!!

Does it matter who if they didn't earn it themselves?

 

[Episcopus]

Wrong! Eli-Lily just built another plant in Ireland. Do you know why? Because in Ireland, the tax is 11%. That plant is taking over for a plant they are shutting down in Lafayette, IN. The U.S. has one of the highest rates in the world.

So we can either stop taxing business entirely, or we can engage in some sort of protectionism.

 

[Paul]

Does it matter who if they didn't earn it themselves?

Yes it should. People make money to better the lives of their children. If they make it big and their children can live off of that great. Their parents CHOSE to give it to them. NOT THE GOVERNMENT TAKING MY MONEY AND GIVING IT TO ANOTHER

 

[Paul]

So we can either stop taxing business entirely, or we can engage in some sort of protectionism.

Or or we could use the great thing of capitalism. Just stop ****ing taxing them so much. Big government taxes and regulations are sending businesses out of here. Dont forget the unions too.

 

[turnandshoot4]

Wrong! Eli-Lily just built another plant in Ireland. Do you know why? Because in Ireland, the tax is 11%. That plant is taking over for a plant they are shutting down in Lafayette, IN. The U.S. has one of the highest rates in the world.

How about corporate greed? BTW Ireland has socialized medicine. Which doesn't have to be paid for by the employer. The average employer in the U.S.A. has to pay about $6,500 PER employee.

 

[CarmelHP]

Irrelevant. What is the rate at which the two groups are taxed. You could tax the bottom 25% at 100% and still not reach the top 1% at 1%. Should we tax everyone different, based on how much they make? Isn't it more fair to tax everyone at some set, equal rate? This country is set up so that people can make a lot of money. It is also set up so that the government provides some essential services. Shouldn't the people that benefit most from the way the country is set up also pay the most, so long as it is proportional? In other words, if I can make $10,000 this year and you can make 10,000,000, why should I pay a higher tax rate than you? Why should I pay 40% and you pay 20% just because your 20% is more than my 40%?

I find it difficult to argue with ignorance. If you make $10K then your effective rate is 0% because of the exclusions and personal deductions. At $10M your effective rate is close to the marginal rate (35%) because all your exclusions and deductions phase out. This is not rocket science, it is easily researched, but it doesn't serve your class warfare Obamist argument. Marvelous.

 

[turnandshoot4]

THOSE UNIONS GOT US OUT OF THE SWEATSHOPS WITH OUT ANY REGARD FOR SAFTEY!

 

[Episcopus]

Or or we could use the great thing of capitalism. Just stop ****ing taxing them so much. Big government taxes and regulations are sending businesses out of here. Dont forget the unions too.

If we lower our tax rate to 10%, what stops a place like Ireland from dropping to 9%? It puts us in a race to the bottom. We can either hit 0 first, or we can engage in protectionism. We could also provide incentives, but that would be socialist.

 

[Episcopus]

 

[turnandshoot4]

I find it difficult to argue with ignorance. If you make $10K then your effective rate is 0% because of the exclusions and personal deductions. At $10M your effective rate is close to the marginal rate (33%) because all your exclusions and deductions phase out. This is not rocket science, it is easily researched, but it doesn't serve your class warfare Obamist argument. Marvelous.

According to my check my tax rate is 35%. Why do the rich pay less? My tax rate goes UP BY AN AMAZING PERCENTAGE if I work overtime. BTW I make 25k a year. Not exactly a huge amount.

 

[flagtag]

No, give them something they haven't had the ability to earn through no fault of their own. Slaves were freed with nothing. They couldn't get anything, as a whole, because no one would hire them. They couldn't start their own businesses and hire other blacks because they didn't have anything to start a business with. At the time of the civil rights movement, which is what he was talking about, racism was still pervasive in many parts of the country. Black people could not get jobs. They couldn't get loans. They couldn't live in nice school districts. They had nothing.

Ok, but you are forgetting something. I have never owned a slave.(SO hate that idea!) No one in my family has ever owned slaves. In fact, my maternal great grandmother came here as an indentured servant as a child. (Almost the same thing) I don't owe anyone anything in regards to slavery. None of us do. MAYBE some old rich families that did own slaves could be held responsible (doubtful), but none of the decendants (of slaves) are due anything. In fact, it could be argued that many of them have been recieving "reparations" in the form of public aid over the decades.

We are not responsible for the crimes of others. Especially since those crimes were committed way before any of us were born.

 

[CarmelHP]

Does it matter who if they didn't earn it themselves?

Of course, you and Obama can spend people's money and decide who gets it better than they can themselves.

 

[Paul]

If we lower our tax rate to 10%, what stops a place like Ireland from dropping to 9%? It puts us in a race to the bottom. We can either hit 0 first, or we can engage in protectionism. We could also provide incentives, but that would be socialist.

Or just keep it at 10% which is low and would bring in more money cause more businesses will stay. Nobody is going to move a business for a 1% savings. Wouldnt be good business. Yes government incentives is wrong. let capitalism work.

 

[CarmelHP]

Do you just regurgitate Obama's lies. I already explained why this is Obama legerdemain. What about the effect of letting the Bush tax cuts sunset?

 

[Paul]

THOSE UNIONS GOT US OUT OF THE SWEATSHOPS WITH OUT ANY REGARD FOR SAFTEY!

Yes they did. They had a time and place in America and that time has gone. They are ruining the big 3, which might turn into the big 2 soon.

 

[Episcopus]

I find it difficult to argue with ignorance. If you make $10K then your effective rate is 0% because of the exclusions and personal deductions. At $10M your effective rate is close to the marginal rate (35%) because all your exclusions and deductions phase out. This is not rocket science, it is easily researched, but it doesn't serve your class warfare Obamist argument. Marvelous.

I get the impression that you are a lawyer. Did you not learn how to assume for the sake of argument? I know that 40% and 20% are not the tax rates for anyone. You are saying that the top 1% pays the vast majority of taxes, and implying that they should have a lower rate. I am using examples and simplified numbers to ask why. Why should the amount paid affect the rate paid?

And thanks for keeping things civil and not resorting to personal attacks.

 

[CarmelHP]

According to my check my tax rate is 35%. Why do the rich pay less? My tax rate goes UP BY AN AMAZING PERCENTAGE if I work overtime. BTW I make 25k a year. Not exactly a huge amount.

Then your federal income tax rate is not 35%. Perhaps all your state, local and federal deductions add up to 35% but unless Obama is going to take over all state government functions, which wouldn't surprise me, he can't help you with that.

 

[CarmelHP]

I get the impression that you are a lawyer. Did you not learn how to assume for the sake of argument? I know that 40% and 20% are not the tax rates for anyone. You are saying that the top 1% pays the vast majority of taxes, and implying that they should have a lower rate. I am using examples and simplified numbers to ask why. Why should the amount paid affect the rate paid?

And thanks for keeping things civil and not resorting to personal attacks.

Using obviously incorrect and misleading assumptions is not "assuming for the sake of argument." It's incorrect and misleading, and if you do it in any court you're asking for sanctions. Even if you do it in moot court, you're asking to be ridiculed MUCH more severely by the panel than I have here. I'm not even as scathing as the average appellate opinion.

As for the underlined bit, I am implying that they pay the vast majority of taxes and nothing about the rate. There you go making misleading and incorrect assumptions again.

 

[turnandshoot4]

Yes they did. They had a time and place in America and that time has gone. They are ruining the big 3, which might turn into the big 2 soon.

How does no one see this as a failure of engineers? Their cars are less quality then their opposition. I will never go back to domestic cars. Especially since honda, toyota, and subaru employ hoosiers and the big three make their parts in Mexico and assemble in Cananda (where health care is free).