Obama: The Constitution is "flawed"

[turnandshoot4]

I believe McCain is on record as saying $5 million per year

To be middle class? Another question.

What is the tax percentage breakdown for each class? I have looked for this tirelessly and can't get a straight answer. Everything I read is one side or the other.

The rich pay soooooooooooooo much in taxes. But no mention of what percentage that they actually pay.

The poor should pay so much less in taxes. But no mention of what percentage of what they pay.

Thanks for the answers. I will gladly weigh in when I know the answers to these questions.

 

[NateIU10]

I believe McCain is on record as saying $5 million per year

I hope you were being facetious

 

[CarmelHP]

Taxing one group at one rate and another at a different rate doesn't redistribute wealth? You pay 80% taxes and I will pay 20%. Let's see what that does to our comparative wealth.

And who pays the most taxes. The guy you're suggesting should be knocked down, that's who. When they've fled or your wish of economic equality is fulfilled, who is going to be left to pay them? That's right, the proletariat in your Obamist new economic order.

 

[turnandshoot4]

What a crock of crap. Multiple Trillions have been poured in "to provide a base for the lowest classes to start from." I love the schtick of fighting racism by giving race-based payments. Class warfare nonsense that has been tried, failed, tried again, failed again, the world over. You don't get a leg up by getting everyone else down. It's a evil, sinister world view that relies on coercion, force and pervasive government control to make anyone go along with it.

You do understand that unless you make more than 250k a year McCain will tax you more than Obama right? The breakdowns are easy to find. I am in no way sticking up for Obama here. Please don't give me the "liberal" label. BTW the trickle down theory doesn't work either. It was tried during the depression and now our recession. Worked neither time. I think there is a 200k difference in the tax proposals of the two candidates. More taxes on the rich for his "redistribution of wealth" (Obama's that is.)

My whole question here is, will I be the one who's wealth is being redistributed? I don't know that is the case.

 

[jsgolfman]

I think you are both pretty close to the same ideal, just not seeing each others' viewpoint. Episcopus, I agree with you that taxes in and of themselves are massive redistributions of wealth. The issue with the tax breaks (for me) is the granting of "person" status on the corporations. They are artificial entities and as such should be afforded no "rights" as enumerated in the constitution. The inherent immorality of assessing a "tax" on the exchange between myself and my employer is repugnant to me. There is no income, no profit. It is a barter agreement wherein I agree to perform a needed service and in exchange am provided something of value to me. It could just as easily be a goat, rather than fiat currency. Unfortunately, the federal government saw fit to bestow "person" status on corporations and throws the whole shootin' match into disarray. If you really want to talk about redistribution of wealth, define for me exactly what qualifies as liable for excise tax. A little research should get your blood boiling.

 

[Paul]

To be middle class? Another question.

What is the tax percentage breakdown for each class? I have looked for this tirelessly and can't get a straight answer. Everything I read is one side or the other.

The rich pay soooooooooooooo much in taxes. But no mention of what percentage that they actually pay.

The poor should pay so much less in taxes. But no mention of what percentage of what they pay.

Thanks for the answers. I will gladly weigh in when I know the answers to these questions.

I know my sister is at 30% plus another 15% because she is considered a business or something stupid.

 

[CarmelHP]

To be middle class? Another question.

What is the tax percentage breakdown for each class? I have looked for this tirelessly and can't get a straight answer. Everything I read is one side or the other.

In 2008, it is estimated that the richest 1% of tax filers will have paid more than 40% of the income tax burden. The top 50% will account for 97% of all federal income taxes, while the bottom 50% will have paid just 3%.

Source

 

[Paul]

You do understand that unless you make more than 250k a year McCain will tax you more than Obama right? The breakdowns are easy to find. I am in no way sticking up for Obama here. Please don't give me the "liberal" label. BTW the trickle down theory doesn't work either. It was tried during the depression and now our recession. Worked neither time. I think there is a 200k difference in the tax proposals of the two candidates. More taxes on the rich for his "redistribution of wealth" (Obama's that is.)

My whole question here is, will I be the one who's wealth is being redistributed? I don't know that is the case.

It worked for Reagan. Its not trickle down, its simple and proven economics. The more you tax corporations, the quicker they leave. The more you tax business, the less employees they employ. Less people have jobs. Simple as that. Why cant people see this??????

 

[jsgolfman]

The tax brackets are here:
Tax Brackets (Federal Income Tax Rates) 2000 through 2008

 

[CarmelHP]

You do understand that unless you make more than 250k a year McCain will tax you more than Obama right? The breakdowns are easy to find. I am in no way sticking up for Obama here.

You do understand that's total BS right? Obama has said he'll let the Bush tax cuts expire in 2010 and 2011. He doesn't count letting the tax cuts expire as a tax increase, conveniently. Even if Obama does what he says, letting the Bush cuts of 2001 and 2003 expire will end up costing you more than the McCain plan at any income level. Obama is great at making people suspend any sense of skepticism at what he says.

• Child Credit: This credit will shrink from $1,000 to $700 per child on January 1, 2005 (extended to 2010).
• The 10 Percent Bracket: The upper income level for this bracket will decrease by $1,000 per filer on January 1, 2005 (extended to 2010).
• The 15 Percent Bracket for Joint Filers: On January 1, 2005 (extended to 2010), the upper limit of this bracket will shrink from 200 to 180 percent of the upper limit of the 15 percent bracket for single filers, creating a marriage penalty.
• Standard Deduction for Joint Filers: On January 1, 2005 (extended to 2010), this will shrink from 200 to 174 percent of the standard deduction for single filers, creating a marriage penalty.
• Alternative Minimum Tax: Exemptions will decrease by $6,500 per filer on January 1, 2005 (extended to 2010).
• Bonus Depreciation: This provision, which changes depreciation schedules for businesses in a way that encourages investment, will expire on January 1, 2005 (extended to 2010).
• Small Business Expensing: On January 1, 2006 (extended to 2010), the maximum amount that a business may deduct will fall from $100,000 to $25,000, which will not be indexed to inflation.
• Capital Gains: Rates will rise to 10 or 20 percent, depending upon income, on January 1, 2009.
• Dividends: Rates will rise to match standard income tax rates on January 1, 2009.
• Child Credit: This credit will shrink from $700 to $500 per child on January 1, 2011.
• The Income Tax: Rates will increase between 3 and 4.5 percentage points in each bracket on January 1, 2011.
• The 10 Percent Bracket: The bracket will be eliminated on January 1, 2011, raising the income tax burden of many workers by 5 percentage points.
• The 15 Percent Bracket for Joint Filers: On January 1, 2011, the upper limit of this bracket will shrink from 200 to 167 percent of the upper limit of the 15 percent bracket for single filers, creating a marriage penalty.
• Standard Deduction for Joint Filers: On January 1, 2011, this will shrink from 200 to 167 percent of the standard deduction for single filers, creating a marriage penalty.
• The Estate Tax: The top rate for this tax will increase to 60 percent on January 1, 2011, and the value of an estate exempt from taxation will shrink to $1 million, which is less than it is today.

 

[USMC_0311]

Don't forget the earned income credit. I know several people who paid ZERO in taxes but received 1,000's in "refund checks". One check was over 5,000. These people stop working when they reach a certain amount so they can get the free money. A lot of Obama's tax breaks will work the same way. Thats redistrubution of wealth.

 

[Episcopus]

In 2008, it is estimated that the richest 1% of tax filers will have paid more than 40% of the income tax burden. The top 50% will account for 97% of all federal income taxes, while the bottom 50% will have paid just 3%.

Source

Irrelevant. What is the rate at which the two groups are taxed. You could tax the bottom 25% at 100% and still not reach the top 1% at 1%. Should we tax everyone different, based on how much they make? Isn't it more fair to tax everyone at some set, equal rate? This country is set up so that people can make a lot of money. It is also set up so that the government provides some essential services. Shouldn't the people that benefit most from the way the country is set up also pay the most, so long as it is proportional? In other words, if I can make $10,000 this year and you can make 10,000,000, why should I pay a higher tax rate than you? Why should I pay 40% and you pay 20% just because your 20% is more than my 40%?

 

[turnandshoot4]

That is what I was getting at.

 

[flagtag]

The fundamental flaw in this country, and in the Constitution, according to Obama, is racism. The failing of the civil rights movement was not fighting in the courts to get wealth to the lowest classes. It is hard to be equal when you are starting with huge disparities. Freed slaves had nothing. It is awfully hard to get something when starting with nothing. Wealth begets wealth. It was nearly impossible for black people to get anything when they started with nothing AND had to fight racist business owners.

To repeat, racism is the fundamental flaw in the Constitution. Obama thinks one way to help get over it is to provide a base for the lowest classes to start from.

In other words: give them something they haven't (yet) earned, but that which someone else DID earn?

 

[turnandshoot4]

It worked for Reagan. Its not trickle down, its simple and proven economics. The more you tax corporations, the quicker they leave. The more you tax business, the less employees they employ. Less people have jobs. Simple as that. Why cant people see this??????

It's not taxes driving businesses out of this country. It's fair wages, healthcare, and low tariffs.

 

[Episcopus]

Turns out that Reagan was an evil socialist. Top US Marginal Income Tax Rates, 1913--2003 (TruthAndPolitics.org)

50% top marginal tax rate?

 

[turnandshoot4]

In other words: give them something they haven't (yet) earned, but that which someone else DID earn?

Did the rich heirs "earn" that money? Most wealth is passed down.

 

[Episcopus]

In other words: give them something they haven't (yet) earned, but that which someone else DID earn?

No, give them something they haven't had the ability to earn through no fault of their own. Slaves were freed with nothing. They couldn't get anything, as a whole, because no one would hire them. They couldn't start their own businesses and hire other blacks because they didn't have anything to start a business with. At the time of the civil rights movement, which is what he was talking about, racism was still pervasive in many parts of the country. Black people could not get jobs. They couldn't get loans. They couldn't live in nice school districts. They had nothing.

 

[Episcopus]

Don't forget the earned income credit. I know several people who paid ZERO in taxes but received 1,000's in "refund checks". One check was over 5,000. These people stop working when they reach a certain amount so they can get the free money. A lot of Obama's tax breaks will work the same way. Thats redistrubution of wealth.

We should abolish the system because some people abuse the system? Isn't that how the English lost the right to own guns? It is the biggest argument against guns here in the US.

 

[Paul]

It's not taxes driving businesses out of this country. It's fair wages, healthcare, and low tariffs.

Wrong! Eli-Lily just built another plant in Ireland. Do you know why? Because in Ireland, the tax is 11%. That plant is taking over for a plant they are shutting down in Lafayette, IN. The U.S. has one of the highest rates in the world.