NWI INGO General Post Part 18 - Legal now!!

[d.kaufman]

May have to visit Winamac one more time yet this year. Upcoming weekend looks great

 

[mmpsteve]

Bought a new Dewalt powerful battery operated blower yesterday. Blew out the gutters this morning. Should have done it yesterday, but I had to work to make money to buy the blower. Next spring I plan on doing gutter guard or something. I'm getting too old for this!

.

 

[JamesV]

May have to visit Winamac one more time yet this year. Upcoming weekend looks great

Sounds like a plan

 

[CTC B4Z]

Looks like a great to use some PTO

 

[Ballstater98]

Pesticided and limed the yard. Man, that's a messy job. At least I won't have to lime it again for 10 years.

 

[actaeon277]

2nd Halloween singing face is up.
Looks better. In fact, the display now looks twice as good.

Of course, I didn't think to put the camera battery on the charger, till tonight.

And I went to make a short video with the cell, and of course, it died.

So, looks like I will film tomorrow.

 

[jedi]

Same here. Of course we have had exactly 2 in 16 years.

U r in the middle of nowhete!!!

 

[KLB]

U r in the middle of nowhete!!!

True. It was all beans and corn this year.

 

[jedi]

BEWARE - Kraz Construction - Shady/Laying Sales Rep

PSA for NWI INGO.
Kraz Construction, 9434 Indianapolis Blvd., Highland, IN 46322
www.krazman.com

In March 2020 I ended up paying $1300 to Kraz to have them do 800 sf of blow-in fiberglass insulation to my property in Griffith. They were not my choice of company but I footed the bill to avoid any legal drama from the ex. The price seemed high for the size but the attic in question is low and has an old TV roof antenna INSIDE of it. So working around that was going to be a hassle.

Now fast forward to Oct 30, 2020 and I call them to see if over the phone they could give me a quote for 600 sf of blow-in insulation in either mineral wool or cellulose. The lady on the phone says they can have someone come out and look at the property the following day. I tell her its not needed its a simple attic job, you can stand in the attic, it has no plywood, no junk, ready to have blown-in insulation. She again says she can have someone over tomorrow at 11AM. OK I agree. She asks how I know them and I tell her they did a prior job for me in March 2020 in Griffith.

11AM and the sale rep (Jeff Schulman) knocks on the door. He introduces himself. I welcome him and tell him the attic is this way. However he stops asks what the square footage of the house is and if there is anyone else in it. Hum... why does he need this info? I tell him I am unsure on the square footage and for the appointment I am the only one he will interact with.

He then proceeds to tell me if he can look at the windows. I tell him sure but I am not interested in doing window work at this time. I only need blown-in insulation for the attic. He ignores me looks at the biggest window in the living room and tells me that he sees issues with the window as it has dew/condensation on it. The condensation is on the EXTERIOR of the window.
He informs me that is caused by the argon gas escaping the window and it is a total failure of the window. It can not be repaired but must be replaced. He then begins to talk about the windows they use and their craftsmanship, etc. He says I should have it replaced soon before winter comes.

I do not know a lot about windows apart from INSIDE condensation I know is bad. Plus putting your hand around the frame and glass you should NOT feel cold air. If you do those are signs of bad windows.
Per Pella Exterior condensation does not indicate a failure of the glass or your Pella windows and patio doors. Thus lie #1.

He looks at 2 more windows in the living room/dinning room before saying he has seen enough of them and where is the attic.
As we go across the kitchen he stops at yet another window and says see feel here. He places his hands on the trim and claims to feel coldness. He asks me to do the same and I feel nothing. He says he can feel it, its slight but there. I politely tell him I will look into later but that I just need an estimate for insulation in the attic.

So I show him the attic and inform him of the two 5' x 10' locations that dip down while the rest is just flat. Those 2 locations are for the kitchen recess lights. So I tell him it would be the area he sees plus another 100 sf area that is about 4' deep so to account for that as well. I also inform him that there are no vents at the edge of the roof as there is no scoffets. Just the vents in the top. He looks around a bit more and then we head back to the kitchen.

So he pulls out his notepad and begins to write notes. He pulls out his insulation material and its the fiberglass stuff. I tell him I am interested in mineral wood and he tells me that fiberplace is much better. Side note: If a customer wants product XYZ why do you instead of trying to sell ABC? So he tells me they will do PinkPanther Fiberglass to get to R-49 value and also add baffles as needed along the edge. The roof has no edge venting so baffles are pointless. Thanks 2A_Tom for this info!

He does a few calculations, looks on google earth to find the square footage (he came up with 750) he tells me the MSRP would be $3400 however since I am a prior customer they can knock off $1K to bring the value to $2417.

I went to home depot and menards to price out the blown-in stuff prior to calling them.
For the SF I have it would be as follows:
Fiberglass was around $500-$600
Cellulose it was around $600-$700
Mineral wool it was around $1000-$1200

Plus the rental of the machine of around $100 for a day (1st day free)


I remained quiet for a bite while I looked at the number of $2417. He then said we could break the payment down. $500 down and 18 month 0% interest for the balance provided I qualified based on credit. I told him I was not interested in doing a loan/financing it. So I thanked him for his time and then he says well wait. I need to call my boss and see if we can lower this any further since you are a repeat customer.

He "calls" someone (I can't confirm it was a real person or some sort of recording or just an audio file). He has a conservation and gives his boss my name. He says Tim (the boss) remembers me from the prior job. Oh really? Strange how that can be since my name was not on the contract for the Griffith property nor was I present for the job and had no interactions with the company. All I did was transfer over the funds for the work. Lie #2.

So he gets off the phone and says since its the end of the month they can offer additional rebates that the fiber glass company gives them along with ad rebates to close the deal. So the price drops to $1517. Plus he says they can also do $45 a month until paid in full via a simple interest no penalty for paying in full. I again thank him and tell him I need to run my own numbers and will get back to them. He says that the $1517 is ONLY good for today and its a one-time discount if he leaves the price goes back up to $2417. That I should take the deal otherwise come winter I will freeze in the house. Lastly he tosses in the comment of he came out on a Saturday and they normally do not work on Saturdays but since I was a repeat customer he came out anyways. Lie #3.

(If they don't work on Saturdays why did the lady on the phone schedule it? Vs saying next week)

I tell him I will contact them at a later date and if I can keep the paperwork with the numbers on it. He tells me no that he must give me a proper proposal but that he forgot that paperwork in the car so he will write it up and return with it. He leaves, spends about 10 mins in his car on the phone and comes back with the proposal of $2417. I thank him and off he goes.

---
So how does the price jump from $1300 for 800 SF (Mar 2020) to $2417 for 750 SF (OCT 2020).
Why lie and attempt to instill fear about window failure when I told them I was not doing windows.
Lastly if I asked for mineral wool and you don't deal with that then just say so.
Don't lie and say fiberglass is better. Each of the insulation types have their pros/cons one is not better than the other.

Now I know it was not going to be $500-$600 as that is just the cost of the fiberglass insulation. You figure another $500 to $700 for the labor. I have not bothered to lookup the labor cost for a 1 day job of a 2-man crew but it can't be $1800. Well they want it to be $1800 but I am not accepting that offer.

In any case just a tale of caution about their sales rep.



UPDATE
Kraz left a voicemail saying they could lump my project with others in the area to bring down the cost even more to around $1200ish.
I think I'm done venting with this topic. No desire to work with them ever.

 

[1775usmarine]

PSA for NWI INGO.
Kraz Construction, 9434 Indianapolis Blvd., Highland, IN 46322
www.krazman.com

In March 2020 I ended up paying $1300 to Kraz to have them do 800 sf of blow-in fiberglass insulation to my property in Griffith. They were not my choice of company but I footed the bill to avoid any legal drama from the ex. The price seemed high for the size but the attic in question is low and has an old TV roof antenna INSIDE of it. So working around that was going to be a hassle.

Now fast forward to Oct 30, 2020 and I call them to see if over the phone they could give me a quote for 600 sf of blow-in insulation in either mineral wool or cellulose. The lady on the phone says they can have someone come out and look at the property the following day. I tell her its not needed its a simple attic job, you can stand in the attic, it has no plywood, no junk, ready to have blown-in insulation. She again says she can have someone over tomorrow at 11AM. OK I agree. She asks how I know them and I tell her they did a prior job for me in March 2020 in Griffith.

11AM and the sale rep (Jeff Schulman) knocks on the door. He introduces himself. I welcome him and tell him the attic is this way. However he stops asks what the square footage of the house is and if there is anyone else in it. Hum... why does he need this info? I tell him I am unsure on the square footage and for the appointment I am the only one he will interact with.

He then proceeds to tell me if he can look at the windows. I tell him sure but I am not interested in doing window work at this time. I only need blown-in insulation for the attic. He ignores me looks at the biggest window in the living room and tells me that he sees issues with the window as it has dew/condensation on it. The condensation is on the EXTERIOR of the window.
He informs me that is caused by the argon gas escaping the window and it is a total failure of the window. It can not be repaired but must be replaced. He then begins to talk about the windows they use and their craftsmanship, etc. He says I should have it replaced soon before winter comes.

I do not know a lot about windows apart from INSIDE condensation I know is bad. Plus putting your hand around the frame and glass you should NOT feel cold air. If you do those are signs of bad windows.
Per Pella Exterior condensation does not indicate a failure of the glass or your Pella windows and patio doors. Thus lie #1.

He looks at 2 more windows in the living room/dinning room before saying he has seen enough of them and where is the attic.
As we go across the kitchen he stops at yet another window and says see feel here. He places his hands on the trim and claims to feel coldness. He asks me to do the same and I feel nothing. He says he can feel it, its slight but there. I politely tell him I will look into later but that I just need an estimate for insulation in the attic.

So I show him the attic and inform him of the two 5' x 10' locations that dip down while the rest is just flat. Those 2 locations are for the kitchen recess lights. So I tell him it would be the area he sees plus another 100 sf area that is about 4' deep so to account for that as well. I also inform him that there are no vents at the edge of the roof as there is no scoffets. Just the vents in the top. He looks around a bit more and then we head back to the kitchen.

So he pulls out his notepad and begins to write notes. He pulls out his insulation material and its the fiberglass stuff. I tell him I am interested in mineral wood and he tells me that fiberplace is much better. Side note: If a customer wants product XYZ why do you instead of trying to sell ABC? So he tells me they will do PinkPanther Fiberglass to get to R-49 value and also add baffles as needed along the edge. The roof has no edge venting so baffles are pointless. Thanks 2A_Tom for this info!

He does a few calculations, looks on google earth to find the square footage (he came up with 750) he tells me the MSRP would be $3400 however since I am a prior customer they can knock off $1K to bring the value to $2417.

I went to home depot and menards to price out the blown-in stuff prior to calling them.
For the SF I have it would be as follows:
Fiberglass was around $500-$600
Cellulose it was around $600-$700
Mineral wool it was around $1000-$1200

Plus the rental of the machine of around $100 for a day (1st day free)


I remained quiet for a bite while I looked at the number of $2417. He then said we could break the payment down. $500 down and 18 month 0% interest for the balance provided I qualified based on credit. I told him I was not interested in doing a loan/financing it. So I thanked him for his time and then he says well wait. I need to call my boss and see if we can lower this any further since you are a repeat customer.

He "calls" someone (I can't confirm it was a real person or some sort of recording or just an audio file). He has a conservation and gives his boss my name. He says Tim (the boss) remembers me from the prior job. Oh really? Strange how that can be since my name was not on the contract for the Griffith property nor was I present for the job and had no interactions with the company. All I did was transfer over the funds for the work. Lie #2.

So he gets off the phone and says since its the end of the month they can offer additional rebates that the fiber glass company gives them along with ad rebates to close the deal. So the price drops to $1517. Plus he says they can also do $45 a month until paid in full via a simple interest no penalty for paying in full. I again thank him and tell him I need to run my own numbers and will get back to them. He says that the $1517 is ONLY good for today and its a one-time discount if he leaves the price goes back up to $2417. That I should take the deal otherwise come winter I will freeze in the house. Lastly he tosses in the comment of he came out on a Saturday and they normally do not work on Saturdays but since I was a repeat customer he came out anyways. Lie #3.

(If they don't work on Saturdays why did the lady on the phone schedule it? Vs saying next week)

I tell him I will contact them at a later date and if I can keep the paperwork with the numbers on it. He tells me no that he must give me a proper proposal but that he forgot that paperwork in the car so he will write it up and return with it. He leaves, spends about 10 mins in his car on the phone and comes back with the proposal of $2417. I thank him and off he goes.

---
So how does the price jump from $1300 for 800 SF (Mar 2020) to $2417 for 750 SF (OCT 2020).
Why lie and attempt to instill fear about window failure when I told them I was not doing windows.
Lastly if I asked for mineral wool and you don't deal with that then just say so.
Don't lie and say fiberglass is better. Each of the insulation types have their pros/cons one is not better than the other.

Now I know it was not going to be $500-$600 as that is just the cost of the fiberglass insulation. You figure another $500 to $700 for the labor. I have not bothered to lookup the labor cost for a 1 day job of a 2-man crew but it can't be $1800. Well they want it to be $1800 but I am not accepting that offer.

In any case just a tale of caution about their sales rep.

Your better off putting raccons in your attic. They work so much better

 

[melensdad]

Your better off putting raccons in your attic. They work so much better

And they smell good too.

 

[Ballstater98]

I dismissed them long ago after they failed to return my call for window replacement at the old house. After my windows were replaced by Trim-a-Seal (whose workers did not cut corners), they called asking me if I wanted a quote.

 

[chef larry]

Cold Monday morning. Not ready for this weather.

 

[repeter1977]

I don't mind the cold as much as I hate the 30 plus degree temperature swings.

 

[KLB]

Cold Monday morning. Not ready for this weather.

Me either.

 

[jedi]

Ya ooooollllldddd.

 

[d.kaufman]

Close to 70 by the weekend

 

[jedi]

 

[d.kaufman]

Been quiet in here since Jedi fainted

 

[jedi]

Jedi thinks they may have all :fainted: cause the psa was written in your language so ya could understand it vs da jedi speak.