NRA Supports Bump Stock Regulation

[lonehoosier]

I'd be willing to trade two of of my AR's for one of these...if you really are worried.

.


In all honesty I'm more of a shotgun guy for self-defense. But make no mistake I understand what the AR is for. Also I have something like that posted in the picture. It would've been nice if LEO were on rooftops with those before the shooting even started.

 

[JAL]

John,
You might want to get a copy of the actual BATF letter, in hand, and actually read it before going on your rant.
The letter states, "the stock is intended to assist persons, whose hands have limited mobility, to "bump fire" an AR15 type rifle"
The manufacturer did not decieve the BATF in any way, shape or form. The BATF knew exactly what they were approving.
That is all.

You might want to quote the actual BATF letter correctly (verbatim) before going on your counter-rant claiming I made my assertions from negligent ignorance. I did read the 2010 approval letter sent to Slide Fire, to verify my suspicions before claiming deliberate deception. This is the 2010 BATF letter:
https://www.scribd.com/document/360...mination-Letter-2010-NOT-an-Automatic-Weapon#

BATF did not come to that conclusion in a vacuum. Its purpose to facilitate disabled persons' rifle use was precisely how it was submitted to them by Slide Fire. Did they tell BATF: "This purpose of this device is enabling the use of a semi-auto AR-15, AR-10, AK-47 and similar rifles with a rate of fire equal to a fully automatic." That's my point. They didn't and you did not quote the entire sentence from their approval verbatim (WHY NOT??). You chose to quote an edited version as if it was verbatim and not inform anyone that it was edited, changing its substantive meaning and what one would naturally conclude from it. This is the entire sentence and states clearly that it's precisely what Slide Fire told the BATF regarding its purpose (full sentence quoted from the BATF 2010 approval letter sent to Slide Fire):

. . .
Your letter advises that the stock (referenced in this reply as a "bump-stock") is intended to assist persons whose hands have limited mobility to "bump fire" an AR-15 type rifle.
. . .

Slide Fire and Bump Fire Systems knew at the outset these devices would be used to circumvent automatic weapons prohibition and/or Class 3 regulation. Not disclosing that intended purpose to the BATF was very deliberately deceptive. One may fault the BATF for not figuring that out on their own. However, a failure of BATF imagination, sufficient investigation or experimentation on their part doesn't excuse the manufacturer from being forthright. In my world, it's considered dishonesty to tell them it's a tool for the disabled, when in reality its a tool to make a de facto machine gun.

John

 

[Alpo]

I've got half a dozen AR's right now with a son in California who won't be getting one. I can always use another precision bolt action. So, I'm half-serious.

But, my go to would generally be a shotgun in my present living environment.

 

[lonehoosier]

I've got half a dozen AR's right now with a son in California who won't be getting one. I can always use another precision bolt action. So, I'm half-serious.

But, my go to would generally be a shotgun in my present living environment.

I think one of the biggest protocol changes when it comes to these open air concert or events will be LEO with percision rifles on rooftops.

 

[indiucky]

I think you mean "perro", not "pedro", unless of course the dogs name was Pedro. In which case, carry on. Lol

Gracias amigo...

 

[ScouT6a]

And before we know it everybody will be walking around with California compliant ARs.

 

[indiucky]

But, my go to would generally be a shotgun in my present living environment.

[video=youtube;7lCYxEOOCRU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lCYxEOOCRU[/video]

 

[Alpo]

I don't live in the bathroom, regardless of what my wife tells you.

 

[Vigilant]

You might want to quote the actual BATF letter correctly (verbatim) before going on your counter-rant claiming I made my assertions from negligent ignorance. I did read the 2010 approval letter sent to Slide Fire, to verify my suspicions before claiming deliberate deception. This is the 2010 BATF letter:
https://www.scribd.com/document/360...mination-Letter-2010-NOT-an-Automatic-Weapon#

BATF did not come to that conclusion in a vacuum. Its purpose to facilitate disabled persons' rifle use was precisely how it was submitted to them by Slide Fire. Did they tell BATF: "This purpose of this device is enabling the use of a semi-auto AR-15, AR-10, AK-47 and similar rifles with a rate of fire equal to a fully automatic." That's my point. They didn't and you did not quote the entire sentence from their approval verbatim (WHY NOT??). You chose to quote an edited version as if it was verbatim and not inform anyone that it was edited, changing its substantive meaning and what one would naturally conclude from it. This is the entire sentence and states clearly that it's precisely what Slide Fire told the BATF regarding its purpose (full sentence quoted from the BATF 2010 approval letter sent to Slide Fire):

Slide Fire and Bump Fire Systems knew at the outset these devices would be used to circumvent automatic weapons prohibition and/or Class 3 regulation. Not disclosing that intended purpose to the BATF was very deliberately deceptive. One may fault the BATF for not figuring that out on their own. However, a failure of BATF imagination, sufficient investigation or experimentation on their part doesn't excuse the manufacturer from being forthright. In my world, it's considered dishonesty to tell them it's a tool for the disabled, when in reality its a tool to make a de facto machine gun.

John

The people at FTB know what "bump fire" is, it's been around for MANY years, before someone made a device to make it easier. Hellfire Trigger actuators are the first "bump fire" devices I remember, coming shortly after the 86 Machine Gun ban. They also came with a letter from then, BATF stating they were not illegal because they used recoil to continue to "pull" the trigger. No one deceived the ATF-E, you just think they did.

 

[ScouT6a]

John, the key words, in the letter, being "bump fire".
You insinuated that Slidefire pushed the device for handicapped people to just be able to fire an AR15.
That is not what the letter states.
I only paraphrased the sentence so that we could get straight to the point.
Obviously, that was a waste of time.

 

[Dean C.]

it shall be unlawful for any person to import, sell, manufacture, transfer, or possess, in or affecting interstate or foreign commerce, a trigger crank,8 a bump-fire device, or any part, combination of parts, component, device, attachment, or accessory that is designed or functions to accelerate the rate of fire of a semiautomatic rifle but not convert the semiautomatic rifle into a machine-gun. ‘‘This subsection does not apply with respect to the importation for, manufacture for, sale to, transfer to, or possession by or under the authority of, the United States or any department or agency thereof or a State, or a department, agency, or political subdivision thereof.

So would this include after market trigger that reduce trigger pull weight and reset as well????

 

[actaeon277]

it shall be unlawful for any person to import, sell, manufacture, transfer, or possess, in or affecting interstate or foreign commerce, a trigger crank,8 a bump-fire device, or any part, combination of parts, component, device, attachment, or accessory that is designed or functions to accelerate the rate of fire of a semiautomatic rifle but not convert the semiautomatic rifle into a machine-gun. ‘‘This subsection does not apply with respect to the importation for, manufacture for, sale to, transfer to, or possession by or under the authority of, the United States or any department or agency thereof or a State, or a department, agency, or political subdivision thereof.

So would this include after market trigger that reduce trigger pull weight and reset as well????

or functions to accelerate the rate of fire
I would say... yes, someone could construe it that way

 

[ScouT6a]

And if you want to see the letter (in part) for Bumpfire Systems, that describes the function of the stock...

[/URL][/IMG]

 

[Liberty1916]

I generally ignore comments about "the left" since it matters not to me who comes running down the street with a molotov cocktail. At that point, I'm only interest in bag limits.

Sounds like a bump stock would come in handy.

 

[JAL]

I think one of the biggest protocol changes when it comes to these open air concert or events will be LEO with percision rifles on rooftops.

For some events, perhaps for now. This would be quite costly as it requires multiple trained sniper teams which don't come cheap. Impossible for linear venue events like the Boston Marathon. IMHO the likelihood of a copycat being able to pull off a premeditated and well-planned repeat is near zero. For a rank amateur, it was brilliantly planned resulting in the sheriff holding firmly to a belief he had assistance of some kind. It even took into account his skill limitations and that of the weapons when continuously used at 400 plus rounds per minute. It may turn out that he did have assistance that knew something nefarious was afoot (e.g. a Michael and/or Lori Fortier), but I have serious doubts. Perhaps someone may attempt it. A gaping hole ripe for exploitation that, to my knowledge, hasn't been plugged is the use of a drone to deliver a bomb. I would worry more about that than a copycat. It's the one you don't see coming that gets you.

John

 

[Liberty1916]

Starting when and where? I'd also like to see where this 99% statistic is proven.

Let's start with the last 12 months, right here in the US. We can work our way backwards and expand from there.

 

[Alpo]

Sounds like a bump stock would come in handy.

Nah, I'm a "deliberate, aimed fire" type. I learned on my first dove hunt as a young lad that you don't aim at the flock; you pick out a bird.

 

[ScouT6a]

"it shall be unlawful for any person to import, sell, manufacture, transfer, or possess, in or affecting interstate or foreign commerce, a trigger crank,8 a bump-fire device, or any part, combination of parts, component, device, attachment, or accessory that is designed or functions to accelerate the rate of fire of a semiautomatic rifle but not convert the semiautomatic rifle into a machine-gun. ‘‘This subsection does not apply with respect to the importation for, manufacture for, sale to, transfer to, or possession by or under the authority of, the United States or any department or agency thereof or a State, or a department, agency, or political subdivision thereof."

This will never pass the litmus test. Any good attorney would have a hay day with this.

 

[indiucky]

I don't live in the bathroom, regardless of what my wife tells you.

LOL...My "home office" is what mine calls the little half bathroom....

 

[indiucky]

I learned on my first dove hunt as a young lad that you don't aim at the flock; you pick out a bird.

Every kid's first lesson be it quail or dove for certain......