Motorcycle Riders?

[tv1217]

My gas tank busted open when she hit me, it got all over everything but the Kevlar seemed to really suck it up.

 

[tv1217]

Someone just died on Broadway in Gary from a MC vs. car collision.

 

[melensdad]

Someone just died on Broadway in Gary from a MC vs. car collision.

Honestly I hate riding in the suburban/city areas. People turning left, across traffic, for whatever reason NEVER see the motorcycles they hit.

I have bright LED lights on my front forks specifically to make my bike more visible. I have a multi-function lighted license plate frame (stop, turn, tail) in addition to the bike's factory lights to make my bike more visible. Riding in rural areas I don't really worry at all. But suburban/city traffic is deadly for bikes. Within the last year I was in downtown Valpo, lady in a car decided she wanted my lane. I was in downtown Duluth, MINN and a van wanted my lane. Didn't matter that I was in the lane. I'd much rather drive a rural highway than in traffic with people who won't put down their cell phones.

 

[tv1217]

You might have a point. When I get back in the saddle I might avoid town as much as possible.

 

[semperfi211]

We do the majority of our riding in rural areas. Then on the lookout for deer.

 

[melensdad]

You might have a point. When I get back in the saddle I might avoid town as much as possible.

Easy for me to avoid the suburban/urban traffic because I live 6 miles outside of Lowell, 7+ outside of Cedar Lake and about 8 miles outside of Beecher!

But seriously if you look at the accident statistics moto riders tend to run into stationary object more frequently than we'd like to admit. But after that, it is the dreaded driver crossing traffic that kills us the most frequently; typically someone making a left turn across traffic.

We do the majority of our riding in rural areas. Then on the lookout for deer.

I had a moose run out in front of me while we were up in Ontario. Far enough that I found it an awesome experience but close enough that I said "F+<K" a couple times to myself.

 

[tv1217]

Way I see it, you can train to avoid stationary objects pretty much 100% of the time, but with other drivers you can do everything right and still end up in a hospital bed or morgue. That's what makes it worse imo.

 

[bwframe]

You have to ride with an escape plan constantly. You must know where you will go when others try to kill you.

Every vehicle at every intersection just might try to kill you. Any oncoming vehicle just might try to kill you. Any vehicle moving the same direction as you just might try to kill you.

Maneuverability and the throttle can get you out of as many bad spots as brakes.

 

[JettaKnight]

Easy for me to avoid the suburban/urban traffic because I live 6 miles outside of Lowell, 7+ outside of Cedar Lake and about 8 miles outside of Beecher!

But seriously if you look at the accident statistics moto riders tend to run into stationary object more frequently than we'd like to admit. But after that, it is the dreaded driver crossing traffic that kills us the most frequently; typically someone making a left turn across traffic.

Yup. Last year I noticed the majority of serious injuries & deaths in NE IN did not involve another car.

I had a moose run out in front of me while we were up in Ontario. Far enough that I found it an awesome experience but close enough that I said "F+<K" a couple times to myself.

Listening to you adventures reminds me of reading David Hough's books...

...which I just re-read Proficient Motorcycling and am in the middle of More Proficient Motorcycling. There's always a few more nuggets to be gleaned on each reading.

Way I see it, you can train to avoid stationary objects pretty much 100% of the time, but with other drivers you can do everything right and still end up in a hospital bed or morgue. That's what makes it worse imo.

Do you remember anything from the accident? Were there any signs or did you have time to react?

I've been commuting on a bike for 13+ years now, and I spend a lot mental energy looking ahead, planning escape routes, watching nearby motorist... you still get surprised (like this morning when the old man wanted my lane but wasn't going to check).


Of course it's anecdotal and a small sample size, but I have noticed a lack of cellphones in hands since July 1.

 

[JettaKnight]

You have to ride with an escape plan constantly. You must know where you will go when others try to kill you.

Every vehicle at every intersection just might try to kill you. Any oncoming vehicle just might try to kill you. Any vehicle moving the same direction as you just might try to kill you.

Maneuverability and the throttle can get you out of as many bad spots as brakes.

I'll ask you - when you're approaching an intersection with an unguarded left, and waiting traffic, would it be wise to use a car in another lane traveling along with you as a "shield"?


I typically try to avoid be along side another car, or worse in the blind spot; but in those cases, that left turning car would be more likely to see them. And I would think the worst place would be a second in front because the left turner might try and beat the traffic (i.e. the car they see) and cross your path (i.e. the motorcycle they don't).



EDIT - as to the escape plan, it's also more pro-active than just re-active.

Case in point: Heading home last light I came upon a stretched out GSXR, rider with a FF helmet and GoPro mounted on top.
There two lanes heading North, and light traffic, but this dude was right up on the tail of the SUV in front. He stayed fixed in that tight position for two miles or more. He could have passed any time he wanted to.

Why would you intentionally put yourself in a spot where you have no time to react when you don't have to?

I just passed them and went on, but watching in my mirror.

 

[JCSR]

I'll ask you - when you're approaching an intersection with an unguarded left, and waiting traffic, would it be wise to use a car in another lane traveling along with you as a "shield"?


I typically try to avoid be along side another car, or worse in the blind spot; but in those cases, that left turning car would be more likely to see them. And I would think the worst place would be a second in front because the left turner might try and beat the traffic (i.e. the car they see) and cross your path (i.e. the motorcycle they don't).



EDIT - as to the escape plan, it's also more pro-active than just re-active.

Case in point: Heading home last light I came upon a stretched out GSXR, rider with a FF helmet and GoPro mounted on top.
There two lanes heading North, and light traffic, but this dude was right up on the tail of the SUV in front. He stayed fixed in that tight position for two miles or more. He could have passed any time he wanted to.

Why would you intentionally put yourself in a spot where you have no time to react when you don't have to?

I just passed them and went on, but watching in my mirror.

Good advice sir. Using a car as a shield is good idea. I use this all the time without really putting much thought into it. I also always cover the front brake (two fingers on brake lever) while in town or in traffic. Also running a gear lower will help in sprinting to safety if necessary.

 

[bwframe]

Good advice sir. Using a car as a shield is good idea. I use this all the time without really putting much thought into it. I also always cover the front brake (two fingers on brake lever) while in town or in traffic. Also running a gear lower will help in sprinting to safety if necessary.

I'll ask you - when you're approaching an intersection with an unguarded left, and waiting traffic, would it be wise to use a car in another lane traveling along with you as a "shield"?


I typically try to avoid be along side another car, or worse in the blind spot; but in those cases, that left turning car would be more likely to see them. And I would think the worst place would be a second in front because the left turner might try and beat the traffic (i.e. the car they see) and cross your path (i.e. the motorcycle they don't)...

I think yes, if I understand the question correctly.

I think we are on the same page of using a car as a pick when appropriate, while not getting glued to one otherwise.

I cover the clutch and both brakes all the time. The rare exception be a "rest" for the hand or foot on open isolated stretches. As a routine, my right foot moves back and forth a lot, between covering the brake lever and ball of foot riding on the peg.

Very good point about being proactive vs reactive.

Another thought on this that I think a lot of folks don't consider is to not be afraid to go out of your way slightly to make a safer left turn across traffic. If you can find a way to not be stopped in the roadway, waiting for oncoming traffic to clear, you don't have to be so concerned about being run over from behind.

Sometimes riding beyond the traffic light intersection is the better option, sometimes it's the safer way.

At a past location, left turn road home was at the bottom of a long curvy hill, off the state highway. Took years for me to learn from my own and other's mistakes. Riding or even driving, if there was any traffic behind me, go past the road to turn around and come back the other way. Wet roads, same deal.

I can't tell you how many times it pissed friends and my kids in the car off that I would "waste all the time" going past our turn just to turn around and come back.

 

[Indyhd]

I always try to ride in the same path as the drivers side tires ahead of me. That makes me more visible to the cars coming from the other direction as well as being visible the the car ahead´s driver´s side mirror. It also makes sure that if there is something laying on the road surface like a muffler which had fallen off, or a large pothole the car ahead will straddle that and by following in his tire tracks so to speak it helps me avoid the obstacle. Obviously give yourself room to maneuver by not tailgating the car ahead.

 

[melensdad]

I always try to ride in the same path as the drivers side tires ahead of me. ...

The motorcycle safety classes advise against always riding there. There are good reasons to sometimes ride there. There are good reasons not to under other circumstances.

 

[JCSR]

The motorcycle safety classes advise against always riding there. There are good reasons to sometimes ride there. There are good reasons not to under other circumstances.

I prefer the drivers side or left track. I do not want to get pinned against the curb or apron. I can also peak around the car ahead slightly and show my headlight to traffic ahead such as someone turning left. Do you recall what situations you would not want to be in the left track? I've heard this before but can't come with anything.

 

[melensdad]

I prefer the drivers side or left track. I do not want to get pinned against the curb or apron. I can also peak around the car ahead slightly and show my headlight to traffic ahead such as someone turning left. Do you recall what situations you would not want to be in the left track? I've heard this before but can't come with anything.

In a 2 lane highway situation you want to be on the far right side of the roadway so you don't get blown around the road by oncoming trucks.

When a car is entering the roadway from the right side you want to be on the left side of your lane so you can be seen from farther away.

When someone is turning across traffic and will cross your path its often better to be on the left side of your lane, or in the left lane if you are on a 4 lane road.

When on a multi lane road you are safest on the right side of the right lane.

So its a situational issue, and there are many other situations but you should generally be on the right side of the right lane, or you should be moving from one position to another to adjust for a situation you see that is developing in front of you.

 

[Clay Pigeon]

Motorcyclegear has KLIM armored moto pants on sale. Ordered myself a pair of the KLIM Outrider pants. https://www.motorcyclegear.com/street/pants/textile_pants/klim/626_outrider_pants.html

Arrived in 3 days and have been wearing them during the hot weather. Not bad in the heat. Not a cool as my mesh Rev'it pants but really not too bad.

Look and wear about like a pair of Carhartt work pants. Got the khaki color. I wear a waist 36 pair of Wrangler blue jeans, ordered the KLIM Outrider is size 36 and they fit just a bit looser than the Wranglers, so plenty of room for an IWB holster with a 1911.

Legs are cut pretty loose on the Outrider pants, no problem wearing these over a pair of cycle boots. Good pockets, rear right has a flap and closure. Rear left is a traditional patch style bluejeans type pocket. Front left & right slash pockets that are deep enough to actually hold things. Front right also has a "spare change" pocket inside the slash pocket. On the left leg is a cell phone pocket that will hold any normal size cellphone but not sure it will accommodate the + size phones.

KLIM Outriders come with included Hip Armor, CE Level 1. The armor sits in small mesh pockets and is unobrtrusive. CE Level 1 Armor sits over the knees, it is adjustable from outside the pants and velcro holds the armor exactly where you want it to sit. The front of the pants have a long channel that goes from just above the ankle to mid-thigh and the knee armor can be secured at most any point in that channel.

From the appearance standpoint the pants look very much like heavy duty khaki work pants. There is definitely a utility look to them. The legs are cut in a "relaxed" fit cut so they are not flattering. The double layer on the front of the pants look similar to a pair of upland style hunting pants. The material is a Cordura fabric for wear residence but its got a fairly soft feel to it and the pants don't "swish" when you walk. This is really a pretty good pair of moto pants for 'blending in' to crowds as they don't look like armored moto pants. The knee armor can be removed in about 30 seconds and replaced just about as fast, so if you ride to a festival or fair and plan to spend the day walking around you can do so without the armor, just pull it out when you arrive and stow it with your helmet. Reinstall when you depart. No real hassle.

The armor that you all use it it that rubber armor that has scales on one side so it can bend and wrap around and not crease?

I ask because I have a few HD 3 season jackets and I have never put armor in the shoulders of elbows and I probably should. I dont know anything about street armor..

 

[Clay Pigeon]

In a 2 lane highway situation you want to be on the far right side of the roadway so you don't get blown around the road by oncoming trucks.

When a car is entering the roadway from the right side you want to be on the left side of your lane so you can be seen from farther away.

When someone is turning across traffic and will cross your path its often better to be on the left side of your lane, or in the left lane if you are on a 4 lane road.

When on a multi lane road you are safest on the right side of the right lane.

So its a situational issue, and there are many other situations but you should generally be on the right side of the right lane, or you should be moving from one position to another to adjust for a situation you see that is developing in front of you.

This tells me I should take at least one advanced class. What you posted is not what we were taught 40 years ago. We were taught to ride in the left side of your lane on a single lane and in the left side of the left lane on a multi lane road. For one so the person infront of you sees you in the side and rear view mirror along with those entering the road from the side streets.
And it kept you out of the center of the lane oil slick that used to cover the road surface.

 

[melensdad]

This tells me I should take at least one advanced class. What you posted is not what we were taught 40 years ago. We were taught to ride in the left side of your lane on a single lane and in the left side of the left lane on a multi lane road. For one so the person infront of you sees you in the side and rear view mirror along with those entering the road from the side streets.
And it kept you out of the center of the lane oil slick that used to cover the road surface.

That is the ONE place where you never want to ride

But yes, as for the rest of it, we took a refresher course a few years ago and it was pretty eye opening. We took our course at the local HD dealership, they offer multiple class levels. We both rode when we were younger, but mostly were scooter riders for the next 20 years. We both had real motorcycles (Honda) that we were riding without an endorsements, just betting we would never be pulled over (and that turned out to be a safe bet). But we were planning an international moto trip into Canada and wanted to be legal crossing the border so we took a refresher safety course. After the course I ended up buying another bike, and a lot of protective moto gear. I already was sold on Arai helmets and Klim gear but I think 95% of the moto gear I wear now was purchased AFTER that safety refresher course. I was surprised how safety conscious the 2 instructors were. They both rode their Harleys with full protective gear.

We were taught to use the lanes to our best advantage depending upon the situation. Different situations demand different lane positions.

In heavy traffic in the suburbs or the city, then left side of the lane, in view of the mirror of the driver in front of you is a good spot. But is that the best spot to be if there is no traffic while you go through the same city? What about the angle of the SUN, is it in the eyes of oncoming drivers, can you use a lane to be more visible if the sun is in the eyes oncoming traffic? Or do you just sit in the left side of the lane regardless?

On a 2 lane highway with a speed limit of 45+ and traffic moving faster then you don't want to be in that spot because oncoming traffic from trucks can dangerously blow the bike over, better to be on the right side of the lane. Again, very situational.

Riding in pairs, one of you should be on the left side of the lane the other on the right side of the same lane in city/suburban traffic. But out on an open highway you may be better off both being on the right side of the lane. In a city/suburban area with traffic you are presenting a larger visual image if one of you is on the left and the other is on the right. But do you need to do that at all on a 4 lane rural highway when the oncoming traffic is on the other side of a grass median strip? The real threat to you is from passing traffic from your rear and being on the left side of the right lane doesn't really offer you any true advantage and may offer disadvantages unless you are in a group, and therefore presenting as a very large visible image.

On wide sweeping curves, regardless of if you the sweeper is left or right, you should be on the right side of the lane to avoid being hit by an oncoming vehicle that drifts over the yellow line of the sweeping turn. We did the Great Lakes Circle Route trip, around all 5 of the Great Lakes. Found a lot of those sweeping curves along the shoreline of Lake Superior and along the 2 lane Trans Canadian Highway, many of those are blind sweepers, you don't want to be on the left side of the lane on a blind sweeping curve at highway speeds!

 

[melensdad]

The armor that you all use it it that rubber armor that has scales on one side so it can bend and wrap around and not crease?

I ask because I have a few HD 3 season jackets and I have never put armor in the shoulders of elbows and I probably should. I dont know anything about street armor..

Most of the armor I have is D3O brand molecular armor. Molecular armor is soft and flexible until it takes an impact; upon impact it becomes rigid at the impact point and spreads the impact out to a wider surface. D3O makes armor for several different moto clothing brands. They make different levels of protection and they make armor with differing properties. https://www.d3o.com

I also have some honeycomb back armor from Dianese. It is a CE Level 2 so its fairly rigid but flows air and I have it in a mesh panel jacket. https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/dainese-pro-armor-g-back-protector

I also have some lightweight honeycomb back armor from Alpinestar. Its it CE Level 1, thin and flexible, flows a ton of air, I have it in a lightweight full mesh jacket. https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/alpinestars-nucleon-kr-celli-back-protector?rrec=true

Protective moto gear has pockets for armor. Pants have hip and knee armor. Jackets have elbow, shoulder and back armor. Many jackets come with a foam back insert that is NOT protective, its just a place holder that is designed to be replaced with actual armor.

Armor is CE rated for different levels of protection. CE is a European standard because there is no standard for armor in the US/Canada for protective clothing. CE Level 1 is the basic level. CE Level 2 is more protective. Most gear is Level 1. Some is a mix of Level 1 and Level 2. Some is Level 2. As the armor sits in pockets it can always be upgraded.

There is a difference between CE rated and CE certified. Also many brands use CE certified armor but not CE certified clothing so you fall and the seam rips and your armor falls out what good does that do? With moto clothing you get what you pay for and good stuff is expensive. Decent stuff is still pretty expensive

As for brands, and my opinion is worth exactly what you pay for it, FIRSTGEAR is a mid-priced brand, often found on sale, that makes some very nicely designed gear that is actually pretty darn protective. KLIM, Dianese, Rev'it have top of the line materials and top shelf prices. If you can afford it, buy it. I have 2 Klim jackets, 2 pairs of Klim pants, 1 pair of Rev'it pants and a couple items from Dianese ... its hard to even compare these brands to Bull-it, Oxford, Joe Rocket, ICON, First Manufacturing or even lower level FIRSTGEAR. But you pay for the superior materials and the superior design, and honestly those little details make the difference between being comfortable and being miserable on a long trip. If you normally just ride around your town, maybe take some 2-3 hour rides to lunch, then a couple hours back home, don't bother with the high priced stuff unless you want it. But if you ride day-after-day for 8 hours a day, your gear will either make you miserable or it will work with you keep you comfortable.

FWIW, I really like the combination of good design, nice details and modest price of FirstGear brand moto gear. Again, just my opinion. My wife has 2 FirstGear jackets, I have 2 FirstGear jackets. My full mesh jacket is a FirstGear, I seriously thought of buying another KLIM, but it was literally double the price. At 1/2 the price I can live with a few things that are "not quite" as good as I would like, but to make it better I will probably be taking my FirstGear "Rush Air" jacket to a seamstress at the end of the season because it 'bites' my neck at the top of the zipper.