Militia Takes Over Wildlife Refuge In Oregon

[IndyDave1776]

That only applies to the vanquished.

Thank you for explaining the cost of justice.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Thank you for explaining the cost of justice.

Do you disagree? I've always held that trials following the war were illegal, yet that didn't stop us from having our kangaroo court.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Do you disagree? I've always held that trials following the war were illegal, yet that didn't stop us from having our kangaroo court.

Fair enough. I will agree that war is an entirely different animal. At the same time, regardless of whether the trials were appropriate in concept or not, I have to agree with the notion that 'following orders' as an affirmative defense is not acceptable, particularly when dealing with some of the more egregious offenses we find scattered through history. It is especially reprehensible when agents of an ostensibly free republic can get away with using such a defense in a way that essentially sets them above the law they supposedly enforce.

 

[BugI02]

First I am not defending anyone here just explaining a view but with that said

Dude, how stupid was Weaver for not showing up to court and getting things quashed??? How stupid was it of the family and friend Harris to run around armed when they knew a warrant was issued???I am not saying the FED;s never made a mistake here or there on handling things BUT It does not matter how BS trivial the matter is there are certain ways to address it and certain ways that it gets escalated right or wrong and doesn't end well.





Again no one here was there at Ruby Ridge, Waco,the Bundy Ranch or the Oregan refuge, yes there were some mistakes made but once again it wouldn't have gotton escalated to deadly force if folks would have just addressed their issues through proper channels. You can be in the right as anyone and give anyone a perception of threatining them (refering to the running around the property with firearms when LEO's are trying to serve a warrant) it always ends well and the trivial matter is no more relevent, the persons actions changed the dynamics not the LEO.


As far s Ruby Ridge, the way a team of Marksmans/Observers work is they in normal circumstances call what they have in to the Tactical Operations Center (TOC). EVERYTHING is coordinated through TOC. M/O's normally don't shoot on their will unless they either have an immediate threat to LEO's OR have the go ahead of what they call "Compromised Authority" which is what they had as soon as the US Marshal was killed until they modified it. And as far as if Hoiruchi changing his barrel or not, Most sniper rifles on the Federal side are rebarreled every 3,000 rounds as SOP as prevenative maintenance.


It's funny a lot of people want to jump all over the LEO's for shooting Mr Finicum, or when someone had a warrant that was getting served and something went south because of the accused actions, but were alright with the shooting by Police of Micheal Brown or something similar.

"ATF agents posed as broken-down motorists and arrested Randy Weaver when he and Vicki stopped to assist. Randy Weaver was told of the charges against him, released on bail, and told that his trial would begin on February 19, 1991. On January 22, 1991, the judge in the case notified the attorney Everett Hofmeister that he (Hofmeister) would be serving as Weaver’s attorney; Hofmeister made several unsuccessful attempts to contact Weaver. On that same day, Weaver called the U.S. probation officer Karl Richins and informed him that Weaver was instructed to contact him on that date. Richins did not have the case file at that time, so he asked Weaver to leave his contact information and Richins would contact him when he received the paperwork. According to Richins, Weaver did not give him a telephone number. The defense counsel Hofmeister sent letters to Weaver on January 19, January 31, and February 5 asking Weaver to contact him to work on his defense within the federal court system.


On February 5, the trial date was changed from February 19 to February 20 to give participants more travel time following a federal holiday. The court clerk sent a letter to the parties informing them of the date change, but the notice was not sent directly to Weaver, only to his attorney. On February 7, the probation officer sent Weaver a letter indicating that he now had the case file and needed to talk with Weaver. This letter erroneously indicated that Weaver's trial date was set for March 20. On February 8, Hofmeister again attempted to contact Weaver by letter informing him that the trial was to begin on February 20 and that Weaver needed to contact him immediately. Hofmeister also made several calls to individuals who knew Weaver asking them to have Weaver call him. Hofmeister told Judge Harold L. Ryan he did not hear from Weaver before the scheduled court date.


When Weaver did not appear in court on February 20, Judge Ryan issued a bench warrant for failure to appear in court. On February 26, Ken Keller, a reporter for the Kootenai Valley Times, telephoned the U.S. Probation Office and asked if the reason that Weaver did not show in court on February 20 was because the letter sent to him by Richins had the incorrect date. Upon finding a copy of the letter, the Chief Probation Officer, Terrence Hummel, contacted Judge Ryan's clerk and informed them of the incorrect date in the letter. Hummel also contacted the U.S. Marshals Service and Weaver’s attorney informing them of the error. The judge, however, refused to withdraw the bench warrant.


The U.S. Marshals Service did agree to put off executing the warrant until after March 20 to see if Weaver would show up in court on that day. If he were to show up on March 20, the DOJ claimed that all indications are that the warrant would have been dropped. Instead of waiting to see if Weaver would show up on March 20, however, the U.S. Attorney’s Office (USAO) called a grand jury on March 14. The USAO failed to provide Richins’ erroneous letter (which proved that Weaver had been misinformed about his summons to federal court) as evidence to the grand jury, and the grand jury issued an indictment for failure to appear."


If you can't see the tracks and the ties of this railroad, I don't know what to say, other than you need to widen the scope of your reading. The ATF was trying to pressure Weaver to be an informant.

 

[BugI02]

That only applies to the vanquished.

Which is what and who Horiuchi would be if he wasn't hiding behind sovereign immunity and pleading the fifth

 

[in625shooter]

Brown and Weaver...there is just a microscopic little bit of difference between shooting a woman armed only with a baby and an officer shooting someone who was beating the f*ck out of said officer inside the officer's vehicle precipitated by telling the idiot to get his stupid ass out of the middle of the street without realizing that he had just robbed a store.

Never said Ms Weaver deserved to die but she did "supposedly" convince her husband not to appear in court and was free to leave. She was an unfortunate casualty which wouldn't had happened if the whole thing had not gotton escalated to where a Marshal was killed and they were refusing to come out. And running around with rifles.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Never said Ms Weaver deserved to die but she did "supposedly" convince her husband not to appear in court and was free to leave. She was an unfortunate casualty which wouldn't had happened if the whole thing had not gotton escalated to where a Marshal was killed and they were refusing to come out. And running around with rifles.

Had Horiuchi got his brain blown out from between his ears, would you call that an 'unfortunate casualty'?

 

[in625shooter]

"ATF agents posed as broken-down motorists and arrested Randy Weaver when he and Vicki stopped to assist. Randy Weaver was told of the charges against him, released on bail, and told that his trial would begin on February 19, 1991. On January 22, 1991, the judge in the case notified the attorney Everett Hofmeister that he (Hofmeister) would be serving as Weaver’s attorney; Hofmeister made several unsuccessful attempts to contact Weaver. On that same day, Weaver called the U.S. probation officer Karl Richins and informed him that Weaver was instructed to contact him on that date. Richins did not have the case file at that time, so he asked Weaver to leave his contact information and Richins would contact him when he received the paperwork. According to Richins, Weaver did not give him a telephone number. The defense counsel Hofmeister sent letters to Weaver on January 19, January 31, and February 5 asking Weaver to contact him to work on his defense within the federal court system.


On February 5, the trial date was changed from February 19 to February 20 to give participants more travel time following a federal holiday. The court clerk sent a letter to the parties informing them of the date change, but the notice was not sent directly to Weaver, only to his attorney. On February 7, the probation officer sent Weaver a letter indicating that he now had the case file and needed to talk with Weaver. This letter erroneously indicated that Weaver's trial date was set for March 20. On February 8, Hofmeister again attempted to contact Weaver by letter informing him that the trial was to begin on February 20 and that Weaver needed to contact him immediately. Hofmeister also made several calls to individuals who knew Weaver asking them to have Weaver call him. Hofmeister told Judge Harold L. Ryan he did not hear from Weaver before the scheduled court date.


When Weaver did not appear in court on February 20, Judge Ryan issued a bench warrant for failure to appear in court. On February 26, Ken Keller, a reporter for the Kootenai Valley Times, telephoned the U.S. Probation Office and asked if the reason that Weaver did not show in court on February 20 was because the letter sent to him by Richins had the incorrect date. Upon finding a copy of the letter, the Chief Probation Officer, Terrence Hummel, contacted Judge Ryan's clerk and informed them of the incorrect date in the letter. Hummel also contacted the U.S. Marshals Service and Weaver’s attorney informing them of the error. The judge, however, refused to withdraw the bench warrant.


The U.S. Marshals Service did agree to put off executing the warrant until after March 20 to see if Weaver would show up in court on that day. If he were to show up on March 20, the DOJ claimed that all indications are that the warrant would have been dropped. Instead of waiting to see if Weaver would show up on March 20, however, the U.S. Attorney’s Office (USAO) called a grand jury on March 14. The USAO failed to provide Richins’ erroneous letter (which proved that Weaver had been misinformed about his summons to federal court) as evidence to the grand jury, and the grand jury issued an indictment for failure to appear."


If you can't see the tracks and the ties of this railroad, I don't know what to say, other than you need to widen the scope of your reading. The ATF was trying to pressure Weaver to be an informant.

there are always communication issues between the USA's office and other agencies but You can spin it however yo want it.

Had Horiuchi got his brain blown out from between his ears, would you call that an 'unfortunate casualty'?

Like many co workers I would have been sad being he was a fellow member of DOJ but things happen to good people!

 

[Kutnupe14]

Which is what and who Horiuchi would be if he wasn't hiding behind sovereign immunity and pleading the fifth

That pesky Constitution twarts us again!

 

[IndyDave1776]

Like many co workers I would have been sad being he was a fellow member of DOJ but things happen to good people!

I guess we have different standards regarding what constitutes 'good people'.

Perhaps I was a bit ambiguous in my previous post. Under those circumstances, I rather doubt that you would accept the shooter walking away in impunity with the blessing of the government.

That pesky Constitution twarts us again!

If I stood accused of a felony, I wouldn't have the option to have my case moved to federal court with the expectation (which did indeed happen) of having the case dismissed. That isn't a constitutional right, it is a privilege of being one of the king's men.

 

[BugI02]

Had he actually been tried in any court, with a full airing of the evidence against him, I believe he would have gone to jail.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Had he actually been tried in any court, with a full airing of the evidence against him, I believe he would have gone to jail.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Officials: Investigation finds Oregon State Police shooting of refuge standoff leader LaVoy Finicum was justified

 

[JettaKnight]

Officials: Investigation finds Oregon State Police shooting of refuge standoff leader LaVoy Finicum was justified

After watching the video, no surprise here.

 

[voidsherpa]

[video=youtube;YWLHiU8gYWY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWLHiU8gYWY[/video]

 

[SumtnFancy]

Anyone seen this video from inside the cab when Lavoy Finnicum was shot? Crazy.

https://youtu.be/aVRogOLwjiY

 

[SumtnFancy]

Scooped by 1 minute by voidsherpa!

 

[Hop]

So the feds lied, opened fire first on the truck. I hear there's already an investigation into two agents that did not report rounds they fired.

 

[jamil]

From the first video that was released back when it happened it looked like a justified shoot. But now I'm wondering if Lavoy reached for his left side because he was shot.

 

[CountryBoy1981]

Where is black lives matter on this?