Masks-no discussion needed. Just vote and see where we really are.

[Rookie]

My understanding was in AZ - here's a quick google result:
https://www.azfamily.com/news/conti...cle_0a3b5c3a-bfe6-11ea-a6a4-db49caf2de41.html

But, it is also a hypothetical. If ICUs get maxed out, that could change the calculus, at least for me.

And I wasn't saying you said that about businesses, I was just throwing it out there because it is an extension of the .gov issue. That wasn't part of the poll, obviously.

I wonder why Arizona is having that problem, but new York didn't. I'm not arguing, I'm genuinely curious.

 

[T.Lex]

I wonder why Arizona is having that problem, but new York didn't. I'm not arguing, I'm genuinely curious.

Totally understand being curious.

My sense is that NY did have that, or at least NYC, but they have alot of hospitals, so probably a really big capacity. Plus, the US military got involved and even sent the hospital ship, even if it didn't get used. They ramped up capacity PDQ.

I think with lower population density they may have lower per capita ICU capacity. That's speculation, though.

Maybe a bit of "it can't happen here" plays a role, too.

 

[dusty88]

We haven't come close to straining the hospitals even before the mask hysteria began. So, why are masks all of a sudden so important?

I think saying we haven't strained "hospitals" is stated by people looking at overall numbers, not looking at whether they are operating at their expected high standard. I know one of my friend's hospitals in suburban Indy had to makeshift extra ICU space in April, crash-train people that aren't critical care specialists, and reuse N95 masks for an entire week at a time. So if we are saying "there's room at the inn" and you can find space and some kind of medical provider then we've never been strained. If you want the standards we are used to for an ICU, then we've been at or close to that position. And with an infectious disease at epidemic stage, once you get close may be too late to turn it around.
That is particularly true with Covid19 where the time from infection to severe infection is weeks. Once your hospitalizations start to climb, you have to start slowing transmission, not wait for full ICUs. I am seeing some data that suggests the hospitalizations are not "going critical" as much as they were before. That suggests people are getting to the hospital more often when needed, and that docs are getting better at treating the early infections. So that's promising.

Testing is a joke with multiple false positives and multiple deaths being falsely attributed to kung-flu. At what point do we realize we can't rely on them?

Testing is not perfect, but it is absolutely useful. PCR testing is highly specific at indicating current or past infection. It misses some cases (false negative) but we aren't talking about perfection, we are talking about keeping transmission to a low roar.
China used CT scan for a more reliable test but that requires setting up special portable CT scanners in such a way that they don't represent a source of nosocomial infection.

My opinion based on experience from 20+ years ago is that UV filters are snake oil. Things may have changed since then, but I'm not interested enough to check. Churchmouse might have more insight.

I certainly don't know anything about that, so you may be right. I do know that ventilation is likely to help disperse the virus. So I'm just using possible examples of advantages we can create when we buy time.

 

[dusty88]

I wonder why Arizona is having that problem, but new York didn't. I'm not arguing, I'm genuinely curious.

According to multiple ER docs in New York City, they did have a serious problem. I think it could potentially be worse in rural areas where the next hospital is further away. Transporting someone by ambulance not only takes time but requires a crew and the PPE to protect them.

 

[Rookie]

According to multiple ER docs in New York City, they did have a serious problem. I think it could potentially be worse in rural areas where the next hospital is further away. Transporting someone by ambulance not only takes time but requires a crew and the PPE to protect them.

As T. Lex pointed out, the hospital ship was virtually unused so, while it may have been busier than normal, it wasn't presented as a big an issue that doomsdayers were predicting. Our own hoosierdoc kept us up to date and didn't seem to be concerned. Regardless, I'm still completely in the "let's bite the bullet and get it over with" camp.

 

[2A_Tom]

Posting to mess with Fozoe.

 

[JettaKnight]

Posting to mess with Fozoe.

I just saw that he was salty about this thread going exactly as everyone expected it to.

 

[2A_Tom]

The only thing a member controls when they start a thread is the OP.

 

[hoosierdoc]

Where in the country have hospitals been overwhelmed?

I have never argued that businesses don't have the right to decide dress code, have I?

currently Texas ICU are generally full. I'm seeing people having to transfer patients of state and they've never had to do that before

 

[T.Lex]

currently Texas ICU are generally full. I'm seeing people having to transfer patients of state and they've never had to do that before

Snap.

That's not good.

 

[Phase2]

The only thing a member controls when they start a thread is the OP.

QFT

 

[JCSR]

Totally understand being curious.

My sense is that NY did have that, or at least NYC, but they have alot of hospitals, so probably a really big capacity. Plus, the US military got involved and even sent the hospital ship, even if it didn't get used. They ramped up capacity PDQ.

I think with lower population density they may have lower per capita ICU capacity. That's speculation, though.

Maybe a bit of "it can't happen here" plays a role, too.[/QUOT

New York had 6 times the normal death rate during March-April. And from what I learned the care was sub-par in the "city" owned facilities. That is a excellent way to free up beds.

As T. Lex pointed out, the hospital ship was virtually unused so, while it may have been busier than normal, it wasn't presented as a big an issue that doomsdayers were predicting. Our own hoosierdoc kept us up to date and didn't seem to be concerned. Regardless, I'm still completely in the "let's bite the bullet and get it over with" camp.

Yes they forced them into Nursing Homes while the ship was nearly empty.

 

[BugI02]

I think you just proved that you'll argue about anything.

Nope, was just referencing the elite level hair-splitting being done when parsing the possible meaning of 'useless' to mean 'zero utility' rather than 'functionally of little utility' in a poll, where the respondents didn't choose the wording, to make a point

 

[BugI02]

My understanding was in AZ - here's a quick google result:
https://www.azfamily.com/news/conti...cle_0a3b5c3a-bfe6-11ea-a6a4-db49caf2de41.html

But, it is also a hypothetical. If ICUs get maxed out, that could change the calculus, at least for me.

And I wasn't saying you said that about businesses, I was just throwing it out there because it is an extension of the .gov issue. That wasn't part of the poll, obviously.

https://twitter.com/Garrett_Archer
The AZ - abc15 - Data Guru

Some interesting and relevant numbers on AZ, esp from about 5hrs ago. The narrative v the numbers is apparent

 

[foszoe]

Snap.

That's not good.

It's actually probably a conspiracy by Democratic doctors to make the Republican Governor look bad and so they're acting like the rooms are full and shipping them away

 

[Tombs]

Those that choose #2 are, in essence, stating their belief that masks are "useless," when there is scientific evidence to suggest there is at least a nominal benefit.

Is this effective?

If it isn't, why not? It's a face mask.
If you believe there is a standard, then what is the filtration requirement to meet?

 

[foszoe]

Is this effective?

If it isn't, why not? It's a face mask.
If you believe there is a standard, then what is the filtration requirement to meet?

Depends on whether or not you're trying to turn tricks

 

[Tombs]

Depends on whether or not you're trying to turn tricks

So perceived efficacy is more important than actual efficacy?

Tell me again why this isn't a virtue cloth...

 

[BugI02]

Depends on whether or not you're trying to turn tricks

The holes are in the wrong place unless you're seriously kinked

 

[Trigger Time]

Good lord we have 3 posting members in a gun forum that believe the Gov. should mandate masks.........The ice is cracking peoples.

Been cracking on here for a while. The left has been invading ingo for a while. Some of the biggest loud mouths dont even live here either