Martial law

[TheRude1]

Who is this Marshall and what is this law he speaks of?

Dillon Daaaaa !
Not trying to poke at the thread, I just had to say that

 

[Somemedic]

I signed up to fight fires and save lives. I have no problem doing so. Maybe you have a loved one who is a ff or cop. If you dI'd I would think it would change your perspective a bit.

You won't hear a louder voice than mine when it comes to rights or smaller govt. With that being said I wish to share some things.

The govt, local or federal, has an obligation to its citizens. It will do what it can as long as it can but the resources are limited. You folks witnessed it in some places better than others. The fire dept is no different. If you want rescues and men working all over the place in extreme conditions your taxes and your neighbors taxes are going up. Cities are crying poor mouth all over this state. Lake Co.too. I've seen streets in Hammond that look like some **** out of ICE ROAD TRUCKERS as of yesterday and that would seem unexcusible.

I will risk my ass for anyone but to see folks out in cars that look like something from FAST AND FURIOUS dressed in jeans and a t-shirt. ..? And going to drop off red box movies?

That's what I'm risking MY ass for? A late fee?

Add the sudden spike of calls with the normal volume of real emergencies and it isn't hard for the system to become over taxed. Also, the FD and PDs have personnel who are sick or were unable to make it into work. Some cities didn't bother to call in off duty troops to cover for guys who were already on for 48hrs. It was going to eat into their overtime budget.

We are a very small percentage of people who recognize that when things go to **** certain clothes should be worn, certain vehicles will only be mobile, certain routes will be impassable. Common sense decisions. But in several instances I saw lots of idiots driving the wrong car down unplowed streets wearing July clothing.

They had effectively closed roads, stopping not only plows but ems and fire from getting to those people in those neighborhoods. None of those fools were smart enough to even carry a shovel to dig themselves out.

Another city performed a high angle rescue on a cell tower worker whose company ordered him to climb a tower 100ft up durin the -16 degree day or he was fired. This was during the blowing winds when WC indexes were -40, low to the ground. Imagine the wind 20ft above tree tops. The worker quickly became hypothermic and frostbitten while in the air. An aerial FD truck was called in and plucked him off the tower. The cell phone company risked mot only the workers life but the lives of 6 firefighters from Hobart who had to respond and set up the tower truck, and for what? The stupidity of a boss who wished to put his employees life in danger.

Your freedom to be stupid doesn't trump my right to live and work for my community. It sure as hell doesn't trump my right to see my children graduate and marry. A large number of the population fails to properly prioritize necessities. Pepsi and late fees? Stay home. Most idiots were only out joy riding lookingtat other idiots. If you're looking for sympathy for your ticket you won't find it here either. We had really good people risking their lives for hours without breaks. Most weren't citical.

 

[actaeon277]

I'm sorry, in the case of the cell tower worker, I think the blame is sending one guy out.
There should have been more, like 3 more. Two pair. To keep an eye on each other.
People have gotten rid of landlines, and use their cells.
They might need it to call for an emergency.

What if that was a power line worker trying to restore power to a group, so that they could have heat.

 

[6mm Shoot]

I understand the who are you to tell me what I can and can't do. The problem with that is we gave the people in power to do that to us. In fact if they didn't do it there would be a lot more hurt and stranded on the roads. It is sad that some one has to be told to stay off the roads because they might get hurt. But so many have proven that they don't know enough to stay home when things get bad. They have to go get smokes, or a six pack or I had to go see my girl. It don't matter what they say they just didn't know that it wasn't a good idea to go out. It don't matter that they were given three days notice that this was going to happen. Hell most of them don't even remember what there mothers told them to put on in cold weather. I'm only going to the car it isn't that bad out.

I don't have any answers to such problems. I would say if you need to go out then take your chances and go out. May God protect and keep you and your like well. Me I am staying home where it is safe and all my stuff is. Oh we didn't have and order to stay off the roads. We did it because we didn't have to go out for any thing. Hell it was cold out there and very slippery. So I was told by the news man. We just did stuff that we always do at home.

 

[Somemedic]

I'm sorry, in the case of the cell tower worker, I think the blame is sending one guy out.
There should have been more, like 3 more. Two pair. To keep an eye on each other.
People have gotten rid of landlines, and use their cells.
They might need it to call for an emergency.

What if that was a power line worker trying to restore power to a group, so that they could have heat.

There was a small group, 4 total. After 10mins on the tower the worker could only key his mike and tell the men below he was in trouble. They called 911.

Failure to have a back up plan for your cell doesn't mean you risk a man's life. You jutst dont have cell coverage in that area for the day. Fix it when the weather isn't a safety factor.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Who is this Marshall and what is this law he speaks of?

John Marshall, the law is the John Marshall School of Law in downtown Chicago.

Apparently there is some sort of emergency there now.

Chicago Law School, The John Marshall Law School, Chicago Illinois -- legal education

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Is this justifiable and ok with you. Since when are they allowed to tell you that you can not go to work and not allowed to leave your home. The roads where not that bad that i drove on the temp was cold. Would you call this a state of emergency?

Since when? Since the formation of government.

You were allowed to leave your house, just strap on the cross county skiis that you prepped before the snow.

The roads might not have been bad where you were but plenty of people got stuck. People get stuck and soak up public resources which distract police and fire from other emergencies.

Of course this was not a hardship as everyone was ready for the snowstorm because they are all a bunch of preppies here, right?

 

[churchmouse]

I have been reading this thread as it goes along. Most interesting how folks see others and what they "should" do for them.

Most interesting.

Carry on.

 

[Amishman44]

Im posting this in here because of the recent state of Emergency that has been issued in IN. There is another discussion about this with regard to a ticket i got but under this thread i wanted peoples opinions on the present situtation. North West IN has declared a state of emergency because of the snow and temp. No one is allowed to drive according to the local government unless you are a emergency personal. Is this justifiable and ok with you. Since when are they allowed to tell you that you can not go to work and not allowed to leave your home. The roads where not that bad that i drove on the temp was cold. Would you call this a state of emergency?

The State of Emergency is really for all the safety workers out there...police, fire, ems...who won't have to be out endangering themselves while picking up and fixing other people's problems all day long when the weather is so bad! Most people don't know how to drive in / thru this sort of stuff so it's better for everyone if they just stay home.

It's also easier for the road crews to get their job done if the roads are not all blocked by slow and inept drivers clogging up the road way while they are trying to work!

Lastly, under an emergency, most businesses are closed anyhow...saving one from the need to go to work in the first place! My wife's business was closed for one (1) day...yippee! We had a good time!

 

[Arickosmo]

I went out in it on the following Monday. I had to deliver fuel and/or pick up my 70 y/o parents from their generator supported house. I nearly got stuck in my own driveway but had water and fuel with me as well as essential gear. I made it back, after filling my truck and had a helluva time getting back to my family in my now powerless home. I will only follow the rules if I think my family will survive despite the rules. My parents were without power and couldn't leave until Wednesday. I did what needed to be done and I was careful. Point is, if you must go, they will and should leave you alone. Also, -15 isn't cold if you're prepared. We cleared the drive on Tuesday. Then I went to Mexico...

 

[tobi]

I would argue for a declaration of 'you're on your own' rather than a stay put order. This would require modifying the law such that if you decide to take your own chances under such conditions, no action against emergency personnel or their sponsoring unit of government is allowed during that time.

If you had an accident and needed an ambulance, would you not call for one?

 

[ATM]

If you had an accident and needed an ambulance, would you not call for one?

Sure, but I couldn't blame them if they didn't make it to the location where I need them due to the road conditions.

 

[joliverjr]

In addition to Somemedic's comments. . . Rather than sit and focus on your right so selfishly consider the fact that one of the major reasons that these state of emergency situations are declared is to keep the roads clear for the emergency vehicles. Georgia is, at this very moment, a perfect example of the problems that too many people on roads they are unprepared to be on can cause. Last night, nearly all major roads were closed and completely congested with people, including school buses full of children. The Nat'l Guard has been called up to use humvees to retrieve people, deliver water, and give other assistance because so many are stranded that didn't stay at home despite all the warning received. It doesn't matter if you THINK you can drive in this well if the other people on the road can't. Your awesome skills or 4WD do no good when the moron in front of you or next to you suddenly spins out of control. When you cause or are part of that 20 or 30 car pile up and subsequent traffic jam (happened in Lafayette just recently on 65), it doesn't matter if you opted to be "on your own". You still contribute to being a major problem for emergency crews.

Maybe you are inhumane enough to be able to say, "Screw 'em. They knew the risks." Or maybe you are selfish enough to think, "My family doesn't really need me and my income, so don't help me when someone plows into my car. I'd rather be on my own." Not me. I'm just not wired to screw my family over because I'm worried about my right to drive in bad conditions, so I certainly hope someone comes to get me if there is an accident I can't walk away from. Of course, I tend to stay off roads when they are at their worst, too.

Whether you like it or not, ambulances need to be able to get to those with medical needs and back to the hospital. Fire trucks need to get to fires. Police need to get to crimes. Etc, etc. They need you and me to stay out of the way to do these things whether you're fine with being "on your own" or not. Seems like that should fall under the category of common sense to me.

 

[actaeon277]

In addition to Somemedic's comments. . . Rather than sit and focus on your right so selfishly consider the fact that one of the major reasons that these state of emergency situations are declared is to keep the roads clear for the emergency vehicles. Georgia is, at this very moment, a perfect example of the problems that too many people on roads they are unprepared to be on can cause. Last night, nearly all major roads were closed and completely congested with people, including school buses full of children. The Nat'l Guard has been called up to use humvees to retrieve people, deliver water, and give other assistance because so many are stranded that didn't stay at home despite all the warning received. It doesn't matter if you THINK you can drive in this well if the other people on the road can't. Your awesome skills or 4WD do no good when the moron in front of you or next to you suddenly spins out of control. When you cause or are part of that 20 or 30 car pile up and subsequent traffic jam (happened in Lafayette just recently on 65), it doesn't matter if you opted to be "on your own". You still contribute to being a major problem for emergency crews.

Maybe you are inhumane enough to be able to say, "Screw 'em. They knew the risks." Or maybe you are selfish enough to think, "My family doesn't really need me and my income, so don't help me when someone plows into my car. I'd rather be on my own." Not me. I'm just not wired to screw my family over because I'm worried about my right to drive in bad conditions, so I certainly hope someone comes to get me if there is an accident I can't walk away from. Of course, I tend to stay off roads when they are at their worst, too.

Whether you like it or not, ambulances need to be able to get to those with medical needs and back to the hospital. Fire trucks need to get to fires. Police need to get to crimes. Etc, etc. They need you and me to stay out of the way to do these things whether you're fine with being "on your own" or not. Seems like that should fall under the category of common sense to me.

Yes, how selfish of me.
Wanting to keep my job so I can pay on my house, and pay my taxes.
How selfish of me to pull people back on the road for free.
How selfish of me to push that 2WD police cruiser back on the road.
How selfish of me to make runs to the store for retired people that didn't get out, yet still needed stuff.

I can not live with how selfish I am. What am I to do?

 

[longbarrel]

Yes, how selfish of me.
Wanting to keep my job so I can pay on my house, and pay my taxes.
How selfish of me to pull people back on the road for free.
How selfish of me to push that 2WD police cruiser back on the road.
How selfish of me to make runs to the store for retired people that didn't get out, yet still needed stuff.

I can not live with how selfish I am. What am I to do?

You could start by backing down the "I"? Think it might help

 

[HeadlessRoland]

I signed up to fight fires and save lives. I have no problem doing so. Maybe you have a loved one who is a ff or cop. If you dI'd I would think it would change your perspective a bit.

You won't hear a louder voice than mine when it comes to rights or smaller govt. With that being said I wish to share some things.

The govt, local or federal, has an obligation to its citizens. It will do what it can as long as it can but the resources are limited. You folks witnessed it in some places better than others. The fire dept is no different. If you want rescues and men working all over the place in extreme conditions your taxes and your neighbors taxes are going up. Cities are crying poor mouth all over this state. Lake Co.too. I've seen streets in Hammond that look like some **** out of ICE ROAD TRUCKERS as of yesterday and that would seem unexcusible.

I will risk my ass for anyone but to see folks out in cars that look like something from FAST AND FURIOUS dressed in jeans and a t-shirt. ..? And going to drop off red box movies?

That's what I'm risking MY ass for? A late fee?

Add the sudden spike of calls with the normal volume of real emergencies and it isn't hard for the system to become over taxed. Also, the FD and PDs have personnel who are sick or were unable to make it into work. Some cities didn't bother to call in off duty troops to cover for guys who were already on for 48hrs. It was going to eat into their overtime budget.

We are a very small percentage of people who recognize that when things go to **** certain clothes should be worn, certain vehicles will only be mobile, certain routes will be impassable. Common sense decisions. But in several instances I saw lots of idiots driving the wrong car down unplowed streets wearing July clothing.

They had effectively closed roads, stopping not only plows but ems and fire from getting to those people in those neighborhoods. None of those fools were smart enough to even carry a shovel to dig themselves out.

Another city performed a high angle rescue on a cell tower worker whose company ordered him to climb a tower 100ft up durin the -16 degree day or he was fired. This was during the blowing winds when WC indexes were -40, low to the ground. Imagine the wind 20ft above tree tops. The worker quickly became hypothermic and frostbitten while in the air. An aerial FD truck was called in and plucked him off the tower. The cell phone company risked mot only the workers life but the lives of 6 firefighters from Hobart who had to respond and set up the tower truck, and for what? The stupidity of a boss who wished to put his employees life in danger.

Your freedom to be stupid doesn't trump my right to live and work for my community. It sure as hell doesn't trump my right to see my children graduate and marry. A large number of the population fails to properly prioritize necessities. Pepsi and late fees? Stay home. Most idiots were only out joy riding lookingtat other idiots. If you're looking for sympathy for your ticket you won't find it here either. We had really good people risking their lives for hours without breaks. Most weren't citical.

When you signed up to rescue, apparently they skipped the part of your training which mentioned that you don't get to pick and choose whom you would prefer to help. If your career risks are not worth the reward or remuneration, there are probably a dozen other fields you're qualified to work in that don't require you to perform high-risk work for people you feel undeserving of the help your current job offers. No one in this world is forcing you to do what you're currently doing.

As for the specious claim that government has an obligation to its citizens, the Supreme Court has declared that law enforcement has no such obligation to any individual.

 

[IndyDave1776]

In addition to Somemedic's comments. . . Rather than sit and focus on your right so selfishly consider the fact that one of the major reasons that these state of emergency situations are declared is to keep the roads clear for the emergency vehicles. Georgia is, at this very moment, a perfect example of the problems that too many people on roads they are unprepared to be on can cause. Last night, nearly all major roads were closed and completely congested with people, including school buses full of children. The Nat'l Guard has been called up to use humvees to retrieve people, deliver water, and give other assistance because so many are stranded that didn't stay at home despite all the warning received. It doesn't matter if you THINK you can drive in this well if the other people on the road can't. Your awesome skills or 4WD do no good when the moron in front of you or next to you suddenly spins out of control. When you cause or are part of that 20 or 30 car pile up and subsequent traffic jam (happened in Lafayette just recently on 65), it doesn't matter if you opted to be "on your own". You still contribute to being a major problem for emergency crews.

Maybe you are inhumane enough to be able to say, "Screw 'em. They knew the risks." Or maybe you are selfish enough to think, "My family doesn't really need me and my income, so don't help me when someone plows into my car. I'd rather be on my own." Not me. I'm just not wired to screw my family over because I'm worried about my right to drive in bad conditions, so I certainly hope someone comes to get me if there is an accident I can't walk away from. Of course, I tend to stay off roads when they are at their worst, too.

Whether you like it or not, ambulances need to be able to get to those with medical needs and back to the hospital. Fire trucks need to get to fires. Police need to get to crimes. Etc, etc. They need you and me to stay out of the way to do these things whether you're fine with being "on your own" or not. Seems like that should fall under the category of common sense to me.

How did we, in a nation founded and grown into the greatest power on individual initiative, arrive at the conclusion that we have a duty to behave as the Eloi in the H.G. Wells novel? Incidentally, the Morlocks do not eat us, at least not literally, but they have done much to convince us that we have a duty and moral obligation to be helpless thus very controllable. You would have us believe we have such an obligation to refrain from looking after our own needs and those of our family and friends. Do you also think we need someone with government imprimatur to hold our d**ks while we ****? While I certainly consider it unwise to travel under such conditions without a compelling reason, the nanny state, at any level of government, can go do something anatomically impossible so far as I am concerned.

 

[IndyDave1776]

When you signed up to rescue, apparently they skipped the part of your training which mentioned that you don't get to pick and choose whom you would prefer to help. If your career risks are not worth the reward or remuneration, there are probably a dozen other fields you're qualified to work in that don't require you to perform high-risk work for people you feel undeserving of the help your current job offers. No one in this world is forcing you to do what you're currently doing.

As for the specious claim that government has an obligation to its citizens, the Supreme Court has declared that law enforcement has no such obligation to any individual.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to HeadlessRoland again.

anyway!

 

[SumtnFancy]

I honestly don't understand how people sitting at home feel qualified to second-guess the decisions of the professionals who are responsible for the public safety. I guess that's a fundamental difference in perspective between those who trust authority and those who don't.

Wow. Just, wow.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Wow. Just, wow.

You just sit down, shut up, and do what your betters tell you to do! (apply purple as needed)