Lessons learned in the GPM shooting

[Joniki]

This did make me rethink my edc. I had been carrying a Sig 938 with two extra mags. I was now looking at both a 5" Para Ordinance .45, or the 5" Springfield 9mm.
I know I wouldn't have felt comfortable engaging with the Sig from 40 yards.
It also made me think of the 50 yard shots as discussed upthread during range time.
This situation and the ranges involved certainly makes you open your eyes and think.
Not all self defense shots are that 7' scenario that the FBI stats talk about.

You will not be disappointed with the SA 5" 9mm. That is my EDC and I have two of them. The mag capacity is fantastic. I also have a SA XD-9 sub. With the extended mag, it feels exactly the same in my hand as the 5".

 

[tscherry70]

This did make me rethink my edc. I had been carrying a Sig 938 with two extra mags. I was now looking at both a 5" Para Ordinance .45, or the 5" Springfield 9mm.
I know I wouldn't have felt comfortable engaging with the Sig from 40 yards.
It also made me think of the 50 yard shots as discussed upthread during range time.
This situation and the ranges involved certainly makes you open your eyes and think.
Not all self defense shots are that 7' scenario that the FBI stats talk about.

Me as well, something with a 4 or 5 inch barrel and SAO.

 

[Dean Weingarten]

Shooting from sitting or prone really limits your ability to move if needed. Being able to move can be very important

It increases your ability to hit the target, and to avoid being hit yourself.

Seeking cover is usually better than a fast first shot.

 

[Jaybird1980]

It increases your ability to hit the target, and to avoid being hit yourself.

Seeking cover is usually better than a fast first shot.

I never said it wasn't. I simply stated going prone or sitting significantly impacts your ability to move.

There are times and places for more than one technique. Going prone when you should be moving can be a terrible idea.

You do not get to pick the scenario, the bad guy does.

 

[2A_Tom]

Once upon a time in 11 Bravo infantryman, I was trained in fire and maneuver, I am not nearly as agile as I was then, but I am sure that I can still incorporate the tactics that I learned as a young man.

Hopefully I never will have to. Hopefully if I do ever have to I will prevail.

 

[actaeon277]

Years ago we had an active shooter scenario at work. We were told ahead of time it would happen and given some rules of engagement for safety. One of the rules was we couldn’t fight back, so it was pointless because I wanted to.

When the training shooter walked into our office and started yelling bang bang, I got up. Closed my office door and hid.

When it was all done - during the de brief - I felt like a clown because 3 of my coworkers were “dead” and I was the only one who survived. From that moment of regret from a scenario, I conditioned myself to believe I’d rather die trying than live with the regret of not helping.

After Virginia Tech, I told the class hiding behind desks is useless, and just results in everyone being dead.
If you attack the gunman, you may also die. But, you have a better chance of living.

Also, guns are NOT magical.
If 15 people form 3 lines of 5 (left, right, side) and run at the gunman, he's not gonna be able to get everyone.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

After Virginia Tech, I told the class hiding behind desks is useless, and just results in everyone being dead.
If you attack the gunman, you may also die. But, you have a better chance of living.

Also, guns are NOT magical.
If 15 people form 3 lines of 5 (left, right, side) and run at the gunman, he's not gonna be able to get everyone.

And just who is going to be blowing Assembly and giving the "dress right, dress!" and "dress left, dress!" command before leading the charge?

 

[miguel]

I think you missed the points I was making when I posted about training.
You can practice/train by yourself if you must. You can gather with like minded friends and gain a world of knowledge if you address the time usefully.
But I se what you are saying.

Ah, I actually did not see your post on this...hard keeping up with the pace of this thread!

You are certainly not one of the Negative Nancys we hear from sometimes.

 

[churchmouse]

Ah, I actually did not see your post on this...hard keeping up with the pace of this thread!

You are certainly not one of the Negative Nancys we hear from sometimes.

Always try and stay positive in in the light of left based insanity.

 

[miguel]

Much like experts built the Titanic and an amateur built the Ark, remember this young man is reported to not have any formal training. Just work with his grandpa.

So its possible to get proficient without the likes of the Gunsites of the world.

Maybe we'll find out his grandpa is Jerry Miculek?

 

[miguel]

Always try and stay positive in in the light of left based insanity.

Amen, brother.

They can certainly drive reasonable men to their limit at times.

Gotta keep fighting the good fight!

 

[churchmouse]

And just who is going to be blowing Assembly and giving the "dress right, dress!" and "dress left, dress!" command before leading the charge?

Act is right you know but getting everyone to set down their phones would be a major hurdle.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Act is right you know but getting everyone to set down their phones would be a major hurdle.

That was my point. How are you going to organize a bunch of people that are either in a state of panic or oblivion?

 

[DoggyDaddy]

@actaeon277 You know I still love ya man!

 

[MCgrease08]

As others have said, carry the biggest gun you're capable of carrying. I don't want to fight with a mouse gun.

A good red dot helps a lot for long range shots. I feel more comfortable out to 50 yards with one than I ever did with irons.

Know your ballistics and bullet drops. At 25 yards and in we're talking less than an inch or so, but things can open up at longer distances. If a shooter is wearing any type of body armor then a head shot might be all you can do to stop the threat. Do you know where your sights need to be to make that hit?

 

[Cameramonkey]

As others have said, carry the biggest gun you're capable of carrying. I don't want to fight with a mouse gun.

A good red dot helps a lot for long range shots. I feel more comfortable out to 50 yards with one than I ever did with irons.

Know your ballistics and bullet drops. At 25 yards and in we're talking less than an inch or so, but things can open up at longer distances. If a shooter is wearing any type of body armor then a head shot might be all you can do to stop the threat. Do you know where your sights need to be to make that hit?

Aim for the gut and hope for a round to the nads?

 

[MCgrease08]

Aim for the gut and hope for a round to the nads?

Realistically anything 50 yards and in is going to be combat accurate. But depending on your red dot zero distance, the drop can get pretty big out past 70 yards or so. Here are some numbers I played around with a while back using a ballistics calculator.

New to the carry optics game...

I saw a video the other day where the instructor was saying that if the dot is not in view, it is generally up above. This is true for me. He said a squeeze of your pinky finger will bring the muzzle down and dot in view. I may try it, but I am finding that lots of reps work best for me. I...

www.indianagunowners.com

 

[actaeon277]

@actaeon277 You know I still love ya man!

That would mean a lot more, if you were... rich/female/loyal

 

[nagantoid]

I'm not convinced that the signs are an insurance requirement. If they were you'd see them all over the place.

My take on it is that they are signs created by head office (which may be in some haplophobic state) to standardize firearm policy countrywide, ignoring the fact that, say, semi-rural Indiana is not the same place as Los Angeles. The signs give the mall the power to trespass people out if they're making shoppers nervous, and I think that's the main point - especially for the signs that are specific about "no open carry".

One thing this incident sure taught me is that the news morons do _not_ understand preemption laws. "OMG they had a no guns sign, he was carrying illegally". No he wasn't. In Indiana, those signs have no force of law. I can put up a sign that says "You MUST be wearing green underwear to enter this mall". Unless I check, I won't know what you're wearing. If your pants happen to fall down, and you're wearing tighty whities underneath, all I can do is say "I don't want you on my premises, please leave", at which point you must leave or I can have you arrested for trespass. In the case of someone concealed carrying in "violation" of one of these signs, that conversation won't happen until after the shooting finishes. Ergo, those signs can and should be completely ignored.

(this does not apply in regions, eg Tennessee, where private "no guns" signs DO have force of law. I really hate having to leave my EDC in the car when I'm shopping in Nashville, but there you have it...)

 

[patience0830]

"The guy who WON THE GUNFIGHT was severely outgunned. What's that tell you? Surprise, speed, ferocity of attack. Focus on that. Get good at that. Be mentally prepared for that. DOING SOMETHING and gaining the initiative, then keeping that initiative until the bad guy can not effectively fight back, wins fights. If you have the element of surprise and use it properly, your odds of prevailing are huge."

Thank you for this, BBI