Kel-tec KSG 12ga bullpup shotgun

[Chefcook]

I like it, my biggest worry is how will it hold up? Most Kel Tec rifles I have seen have had issues. If this thing stands up to the test of use i would love to have one. It solves the issues I don't like about Saigas being the giant foot long banana mag that only holds 10 rounds. This video gives the shotgun a pretty good look. I didn't like the other video posted, I cant say for sure the operator was competent in the operation of the firearm he forgot to switch mags and then had to fumble with it. Another thing I think is really cool about the two separate tubes is that it would make if possible to load two different specialized types of ammo to meet different conditions and have the ability to switch ammo type on the fly. For instance you might load 00 Buck in one tube and slugs or # 4's or breaching or even non lethal rounds in the other...

http://youtu.be/BsJH5YMhKmM

 

[Outlaw]

I wonder how difficult it is to load and select between tubes. Pretty cool idea overall. After the bugs are worked out it will prob make it on my list.

 

[Chefcook]

I wonder how difficult it is to load and select between tubes. Pretty cool idea overall. After the bugs are worked out it will prob make it on my list.

Yea I thought that also I imagine like anything else it would be a matter of practice and training to gain muscle memory for this particular weapon. This is the first pump or semi auto shotgun I have seen that intrigues me as a new design. I still to this day say that no shotgun compares to an old 1940's made Winchester Mod 12 or an old Browning auto 5 I don't particularly like pistol grips on shotguns when it comes to shotguns I am kinda old school, but this new design is innovative and versatile. My only gripe is Kel Tec's reputation, I think they are if they have used some metal and good quality control in this new design it could be great. Otherwise I will wait till a more reputable company makes something similar. The double mag tube is genius, I can only hope that with the hefty price tag Kel Tec has spent that money on quality control and quality materials, this is what remains to be seen. Hey who knows maybe Kel Tec has finally decided to become a contender and has made this weapon right??? It looks solid in this last video...

 

[Zoub]

The way I understand how it is supposed to work, it automatically picks off one round alternating between the tubes.

No.

10 seconds into the video he runs the first mag empty and what you see is the shooter switching to the second mag tube. I have yet to see a video of this gun run smoothly by any shooter including Awerbuck, but that was the smoothest I have seen except for the mag switch. It looks to be prone to short stroking. I think they would be smoother with the VG off the gun.

 

[gunman41mag]

As for me, kel-tec is know for recalling their guns, their quality control is lacking, for $800 I'll buy a semi-auto BENELLI

 

[Chefcook]

As for me, kel-tec is know for recalling their guns, their quality control is lacking, for $800 I'll buy a semi-auto BENELLI

Yea up to this point that is my feeling exactly. However I will not discount this shotty till I see some evidence its ****. There is too much good here to just discount it. It is brand new and I am sure it has bugs to work out, but as far as innovation in the shotgun world goes this is all new and good stuff to look for in the future. A semi auto version would be really cool to see. This is a great innovation for civilian use the last innovative shotty was the AA 12 unfortunately its not available to the general market...

 

[Zoub]

Hello..............McFly.......

SRMArms.com - SRM Arms

 

[BumpShadow]

Hello..............McFly.......

SRMArms.com - SRM Arms

For 1500 bucks, I don't think so.

 

[Chefcook]

Hello..............McFly.......

SRMArms.com - SRM Arms

Yea at a price point of $2400 I don't think so, and the rotating mag tubes do not offer the ability to load more than one type of ammo switchable on the fly. It may be a well made weapon but in concept It doesn't compare...

 

[Uncle Lee]

I received this from KT last March the first.
I went to the local dealer and he said it would be around $600 so I preordered one, $600.00 down.
After the first of the year I am going to start bugging them.

Hi Lee,

We’re hoping to have the release date set on it by the end of the year. You should be able to put in a preorder for it now with your dealer though.

Thanks,
Kel-Tec
Customer Service

P.O. Box 236009
Cocoa FL, 32923
321-631-0068
Mon-Fri 8-3p EST

 

[Zoub]

Yea at a price point of $2400 I don't think so, and the rotating mag tubes do not offer the ability to load more than one type of ammo switchable on the fly. It may be a well made weapon but in concept It doesn't compare...

I would not buy it either but it is no more than a Tromix SBS Saiga with some MD arms drums. I doubt Kel tec can beat the Saiga price point IF they ever went semi with that gun, which they likely won't. That is my point, that application exists.

You may not like the switchable on the fly applicaton on the Kel tec as much as you think. I have yet to a single video showing that move even being done. That makes me wonder why not? On the other hand plenty of shooters have issues running the first mag empty because in the real world, including on the range and when gaming, who counts rounds?

If you are counting rounds, then you are shooting slower, even with a pump. The true strength is overall capacity and the rest is left up to conjecture until the gun is proven.

Switching on the fly solves a non problem. If you need buck, you need a lot of it. If you need slugs, you need a lot of it. If you are in bear country you may want to alternate every other round in both mags, buck slug, buck, slug etc.....

I would rather have a butt load of the ammo I need, not have 50% of it dedicated to a possible need. Do a tac reload for the special need if it arises. That is another issue that may or may not be considered good on this gun depending on how you weigh the movements. I can see making it work. The issue is all the short stroking and other issues like locking up the action/bolt. I think the short stroke paired with the VG is a bad move. It is bad on a pump anyway. I wonder if it is there for liability reasons? They are concerned people will blow fingers off like they might on a SBS or AOW so put the VG on it.

 

[Chefcook]

I would not buy it either but it is no more than a Tromix SBS Saiga with some MD arms drums. I doubt Kel tec can beat the Saiga price point IF they ever went semi with that gun, which they likely won't. That is my point, that application exists.

You may not like the switchable on the fly applicaton on the Kel tec as much as you think. I have yet to a single video showing that move even being done. That makes me wonder why not? On the other hand plenty of shooters have issues running the first mag empty because in the real world, including on the range and when gaming, who counts rounds?

If you are counting rounds, then you are shooting slower, even with a pump. The true strength is overall capacity and the rest is left up to conjecture until the gun is proven.

Switching on the fly solves a non problem. If you need buck, you need a lot of it. If you need slugs, you need a lot of it. If you are in bear country you may want to alternate every other round in both mags, buck slug, buck, slug etc.....

I would rather have a butt load of the ammo I need, not have 50% of it dedicated to a possible need. Do a tac reload for the special need if it arises. That is another issue that may or may not be considered good on this gun depending on how you weigh the movements. I can see making it work. The issue is all the short stroking and other issues like locking up the action/bolt. I think the short stroke paired with the VG is a bad move. It is bad on a pump anyway. I wonder if it is there for liability reasons? They are concerned people will blow fingers off like they might on a SBS or AOW so put the VG on it.

I agree with a lot of what you have said here. In referring to having different ammo types I was thinking more for law enforcement or SWAT type scenarios. Where it might be a real value. Like I said in my earlier post I dont like vertical anything on a shotgun. As far as shotguns go I am kinda old school. However for this design I feel the pistol grip works, I would not add a vertical fore grip. I might consider a Magpul angled Foregrip that might work out nicely here. In my experience VG's do not work well on shotguns and they are un-neccesary. The biggest issue I have with this weapon is that its made by Kel Tec, Kel Tec in my experience is crap and until this I wouldn't even consider owning any of their products. I think its a neat product I can only hope they do it right and make it a real working reliable firearm. Only time will tell, there are only a few videos out there right now, I will be watching for more info on this in the future...

 

[cedartop]

SI was real big on these at first and hopeful, however, after some testing, not so much. Summary here.

Summation: The KSG design is promising but not yet reliable by any stretch of the imagination. The fact that four different testers with several types of ammunition repeatedly encountered malfunctions (notably all of the same type, though possibly of different origin) indicates a predisposition to fail (at least with this particular example).

The length and capacity of the KSG are attractive attributes. The balance, even when fully loaded, is remarkably neutral. There was no real perception of it being forward heavy or otherwise unbalanced.

I am eager to see the KSG after the reliability issues have been successfully addressed.

Backing up a little,
Occasionally, the stuck fired shell could be removed from the chamber by forceful “racking” of the mechanism. This could be accomplished about 50% of the time within three to four attempts. Otherwise, it required a field expedient rebar rod to be carefully inserted into the barrel and gently tapped until the shell released.

All of this required that the second shell be removed prior to clearing the chamber. A Leatherman tool was handy to grip the second unfired shell and pry it out from underneath the feed arms.

The process of clearing the double-feeds is as follows:
1. Put the firearm on safe.
2. Set the selector switch to the middle position.
3. Turn the KSG over so the ejection/loading port is facing you.
4. Pull the unfired shell out by lifting and twisting (nearly impossible) or with the aid of a Leatherman tool.
5. Eject the fired shell still in the chamber. If it does not eject with vigorous “racking” of the forearm, it may require a rod inserted from the end of the barrel.

No malfunctions occurred with the control firearms.

The barrel did get “warm” but not hot throughout the testing. The blast shield does an effective job of keeping the heat down over the action. After approximately 200 rounds of testing with pauses for clearing, the KSG was not too hot to shoot. The area of the buttstock and cheek weld was never too warm for comfort.

The KSG slings nicely, though when slung barrel down and to the rear, one must reach high and back to access the pistol grip in order to roll and project the firearm forward to clear the body.

Another control shotgun was added on Sunday and it was noted by all testers that the perceived recoil of the KSG was much more than either the Mossberg 590, Remington 870 or the Saiga S-12. “Punishing” and that’s a “freakin’ *****” were frequent comments.

Winchester Ranger Low Recoil 00 buckshot was found to be the most pleasant to shoot by all testers.

Suggestions:
1. Obviously, reliability needs to be addressed. The extractor may be the culprit but that is not certain and may be one of several factors.
2. There appears to be no room to attach a muzzle brake if one was so inclined. The benefit of the muzzle brake may be outweighed by the increase in length.
3. The end of the forearm is very close to the muzzle. For some of the testers, especially those with larger hands, too close. A molded lip near the end of the forearm may be something to consider. A vertical forearm grip would probably function very well and be something each individual could place for their own comfort and safety.
4. The tube selector mechanism and the small parts controlling the tube selection could be a weak point and may need “beefing up”.

 

[Kedric]

Wasn't that with an older version? Pretty sure I read that several months ago.

 

[cedartop]

Wasn't that with an older version? Pretty sure I read that several months ago.

Don't know if it was an actual different "version", but yes the test was done earlier in the year. It was offputting enough for us to go a different route. I will be in AZ for the next little while and se if HQ did any more work with the Bullpup. Hope to also get some time in on the new TSD AK and MKA 1919 (AR12).

 

[Chefcook]

Don't know if it was an actual different "version", but yes the test was done earlier in the year. It was offputting enough for us to go a different route. I will be in AZ for the next little while and se if HQ did any more work with the Bullpup. Hope to also get some time in on the new TSD AK and ADAL (AR12).

I will look forward to reading any updates...

 

[gunman41mag]

a kel-tec is a kel-tec,

 

[El Guero]

Already in the waiting list, but the dealer told me that may not come out this year and will be allocated, so there will be some wait time, i have few kel tecs including the pmr-30 and i like them, very light and simple plastic guns, cheap i don't know, just the smrp of this shotgun is the double of a Mossberg 500.

 

[Kedric]

Truth About Guns reviews the KSG:

Gun Review: Kel-Tec KSG | The Truth About Guns

 

[Chefcook]

Truth About Guns reviews the KSG:

Gun Review: Kel-Tec KSG | The Truth About Guns

Sounds promising, however I will wait to pass judgement until I have held and fired one...