Justified or Something Else

[Sigblitz]

First shot justified? I don't know. Bringing a gun to a fist fight comes to mind. Second shot hit the gravel. The aggressor was clearly retreating at the fourth shot. Seven shots were fired rapidly. I'm just analyzing the video. I don't know where it is or their laws on justified shootings. Personally I would have went hands on unless a weapon was introduced.

 

[Sigblitz]

(1) is justified in using deadly force;  and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
if the person reasonably believes that that force is necessary to prevent serious bodily injury to the person or a third person or the commission of a forcible felony.

In Indiana code
If the victim suffered moderate bodily injury, the aggressor committed a level 6 battery assault.
If the victim suffered more severe bodily injury, the aggressor committed a level 5 battery assault.

The victim looked unhurt to me, but I don't know that. Based just on the video, I would say not justified in Indiana. And watch those mag dumps. You alone are responsible for every round. This could also be a problem firing at a fleeing aggressor.

 

[Sigblitz]

If he stayed on scene, asked for medical, I think it would sway in his favor.

 

[Sigblitz]

I forgot to add, you can't mutually agree to a fist fight and escalate it to this. This guy didn't make any aggressive moves at all. He was defending himself. The only question is what level of defense can he take. If he had moderate levels of injury, the threshold for deadly force has been met according to IC.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I forgot to add, you can't mutually agree to a fist fight and escalate it to this. This guy didn't make any aggressive moves at all. He was defending himself. The only question is what level of defense can he take. If he had moderate levels of injury, the threshold for deadly force has been met according to IC.

I don't think he has to wait until the injury has occurred. He has to reasonably believe that he is imminent danger of being severely injured IIRC.

 

[Sigblitz]

That sounds right. The commission of a forcible felony instead of after the commission of a forcible felony.

Now the lawyers have something to argue about.

 

[bashMOH]

What could the small guy have done to justify a possible life ending beating? Nothing I can think of.

Small guy could have been peeping on his daughter
Small guy could have been a known aggressor against his son
Small guy could have been acting in an aggressive/unwanted way towards his wife

I'm not saying all of those justify physical force, but not having heard the audio and just saw video, there could have been any number of reasons

 

[ECS686]

First shot justified? I don't know. Bringing a gun to a fist fight comes to mind. Second shot hit the gravel. The aggressor was clearly retreating at the fourth shot. Seven shots were fired rapidly. I'm just analyzing the video. I don't know where it is or their laws on justified shootings. Personally I would have went hands on unless a weapon was introduced.

Unless there is more to what we saw (who was the initial aggressor off camera etc) In most jurisdictions this shooting wouldn’t warrant charges and it’s a justified shoot. Couple things. He was getting pummeled against a hard object so that’s more than fists (read up on the Trayvon Martin George Zimmerman case)

As far as the late shot from what I see that can be easily covered by the OODA loop which has been successfully used for LE and Civilian cases.

That is a general overview on the camera only unless there is something I missed.

 

[Creedmoor]

I don't think he has to wait until the injury has occurred. He has to reasonably believe that he is imminent danger of being severely injured IIRC.

I would bet things like this, are why most carry firearms.

 

[Denny347]

I hate slowed video, it alters the watchers perception of events. Even though the watcher knows the video is slowed, it warps the viewer's perception of time. Depending on the jurisdiction, this could certainly be justified. However, there is no context to know for sure. Example. The little guy could have just robbed the big guy. The big guy tracked down little guy to take back what was taken from him by force. Little guy cannot claim self defense if in the commission of a felony. Now obviously I made this up. The point is, not matter HOW it looks, there is not enough info in that clip to judge. CONTEXT.

 

[ECS686]

I would bet things like this, are why most carry firearms.

Yeah but in this case like a lot of them pepper spray would have prevented a lot of stuff. I get it if you’re justified to shoot but even then the legal stuff just with the initial investigation isn’t fun.

Scenarios where Pepper spray is justified and shooting isn’t and or using it keeps you from using a firearm is undersold in classes and mindsets!

 

[Route 45]

I watched it a few times and thought, "I don't remember this scene from Breaking Bad."

 

[Hkindiana]

LOL... What was That Famous Sam Colt saying again?
Oh yea,

God created men equal. Colonel Colt made them equal

“Good created man, and Colonel Colt made men equal”

 

[Creedmoor]

Yeah but in this case like a lot of them pepper spray would have prevented a lot of stuff. I get it if you’re justified to shoot but even then the legal stuff just with the initial investigation isn’t fun.

Scenarios where Pepper spray is justified and shooting isn’t and or using it keeps you from using a firearm is undersold in classes and mindsets!

Well, I've carried over 40 years and I've never carried pepper spray, and I have no intention of ever doing so. If I feel that imminent danger has arrived, my brain knows whats going to happen next.

 

[BigRed]

If he stayed on scene, asked for medical, I think it would sway in his favor.

Probably shouldn't have given the "hang loose" sign either, but meh.

 

[BigRed]

I watched again. The more I watch, the more I conclude Mattis was correct.

"there are some ******** in the world that just need to be shot.”​

 

[Denny347]

Probably shouldn't have given the "hang loose" sign either, but meh.

I took that as a "phone" signal. Motioning to someone to call 911.

 

[ECS686]

Well, I've carried over 40 years and I've never carried pepper spray, and I have no intention of ever doing so. If I feel that imminent danger has arrived, my brain knows whats going to happen next.

All I am relaying is there are far more scenarios where you’re legal to pepper spray but not shoot. And is a viable option. But to each their own!

 

[Mgderf]

All I am relaying is there are far more scenarios where you’re legal to pepper spray but not shoot. And is a viable option. But to each their own!

Just a year or so ago there was a woman police officer tried for murder because she drew her gun instead of her taser.
The more items you introduce into the scenario, the more convoluted things become.

 

[ECS686]

Not really an apple to apples comparison. Police are trying to take someone into custody earth people just want to break contact. Unfortunately She was not the first one to mistake a firearm for a taser. In fact the frequency that mishaps like that happened with Oilice is why most agencies unless they are under a rock dictate off side carry.

I know of no documented cases where a LE or civilian confused a firearm for a canister of Oeoper/OC spray

A large percentage of people are programmed to gun only and that’s not always legal and or if it is is it the best way?

Perhaps BBI can ad in some content.