Just one more reason to get rid of the ridiculous One-Buck rule

[two70]

I for one was not easily convinced it would work but I know that it did. Individual experiences may vary considerably based on a myriad of other factors but the mature/record quality bucks coming out of Indiana prior to the OBR and the numbers coming out after is absolutely telling. If there is evidence to the contrary I would be interested in seeing it. I'm certainly no expert but one thing I have paid attention to for the past 35 years is the buck quality produced in this state and it has undoubtedly improved.

There was a time when IL was bringing in millions of dollars to their state economy each year from out of state hunters wanting to kill a brute. They almost had a monopoly for a few years there, they were THE destination to go. Now many of the other states have decided to manage their resources in a similar fashion and IL has all but lost its standing as the place to go.

For the government types, whitetail are nothing more than a nuisance they have to contend with. Try to squeak as much money out of them as possible while trying to pacify the lobbyists from the Insurance companies.

I was around for original debate and I consider it long over and done with. I see no reason to rehash all of the numbers again now. Absolutely no offense intended, but I learned along ago no matter how little the harvest numbers support the contention that the OBR was the direct cause in the increase in trophy numbers, very few people can look beyond the trophies to even consider other factors.

It's not so much that other states have improved to match Illinois (which is a two buck state by the way), it's more that Illinois and outfitters in Illinois even more so in many cases, mismanaged their antlerless population. Poor antlerless management combined with a heavy high end buck pressure is simply not sustainable for long. Similar trends happened in Iowa and Wisconsin. Lower but growing deer populations tend to produce a greater percentage of trophy deer than high populations regardless of trends.

The DNR has to juggle a lot of conflicting interests and certainly earns some of the criticism that is directed their way in the process. They, however, do a lot better job than we as hunters would do though. The DNR at least has no desire to kill the golden goose... while us hunters would fight each other to be the ones to do so despite the detriment to all.

 

[1nderbeard]

Likewise brother. The only thing I concern myself with when it comes to other hunters is that they follow the rules. I could care less what anyone kills so long as it's done lawfully. I guess I just don't see where I'm doing anything that negatively affects anyone else so I can't figure out the hostility towards how/what I prefer to hunt.

At our old lease, we would let at least 50 opportunities to take a doe or younger buck come and go without launching an arrow every season. We spent tens of thousands to improve land we didn't own to improve the habitat. We've had numerous mature bucks we were after get killed by neighbors and our only response has been to congratulate them, help them drag it out if needed and celebrate with them over a beer or bourbon. We had good numbers of does, young bucks and mature bucks each season and all of our surrounding landowners hunted like we did and everyone enjoyed an ample herd as a result.

Yeah I think maybe it's the competitive nature of hunters that sometimes gets the better of us. I can't say I haven't been jealous of other guys' success. But at the end of the day I can still be happy for other hunters.

Good luck this year. I'm counting down the days until squirrel season opens.

 

[bwframe]

While coyote hunting last night I saw over 200 deer. This was without covering much ground. I know some counties have low numbers, but don't restrict the whole state with taking away bonus antlerless season.

More deer that ever here. One got splattered all over my mailbox a few weeks ago. I had 8 bedded 30-40 yards out from my back door last night.

I was blessed with a nice doe that ventured into my narrow safe shooting window during gun season this year. However, the complete closing of the bonus antlerless season left numerous deer walking through that same shooting window during the prime cold weather days, with snow on the ground.

I paid a lot of money, years ago, to buy a lifetime hunting license. Every time the DNR takes a deer or season away, I feel like they are taking an oportunity for meat in the freezer that I have paid for.

 

[cosermann]

I would rather see the doe tag quota down. I remember a time when you had to apply for a doe tag, and the deer population was exponential compared to today. 1 buck can impregnate several does, but several bucks can't impregnate 1 doe.

^^^ This. I remember when doe tags were first introduced, and formerly rich deer grounds were decimated (and have never recovered to the prior level that I know of - we're talking 45+ years). Grandpa never had a single good thing to say about doe tags.

(This occurred in in the northern lower peninsula of Mich in 1952, btw.)

 

[phylodog]

^^^ This. I remember when doe tags were first introduced, and formerly rich deer grounds were decimated (and have never recovered to the prior level that I know of - we're talking 45+ years). Grandpa never had a single good thing to say about doe tags.

(This occurred in in the northern lower peninsula of Mich in 1952, btw.)

One of my hunting mentors when I was in the Army was from Davidson, MI. His Dad owned 160 acres in the U.P. and God help the S.O.B. who shot a doe if he was around. You couldn't understand much when he got fired up (Uper' accent) but you could tell he was pissed.

I've killed one doe and that was in TX back in 95.

 

[gregr]

I was around for original debate and I consider it long over and done with. I see no reason to rehash all of the numbers again now. Absolutely no offense intended, but I learned along ago no matter how little the harvest numbers support the contention that the OBR was the direct cause in the increase in trophy numbers, very few people can look beyond the trophies to even consider other factors.

It's not so much that other states have improved to match Illinois (which is a two buck state by the way), it's more that Illinois and outfitters in Illinois even more so in many cases, mismanaged their antlerless population. Poor antlerless management combined with a heavy high end buck pressure is simply not sustainable for long. Similar trends happened in Iowa and Wisconsin. Lower but growing deer populations tend to produce a greater percentage of trophy deer than high populations regardless of trends.

The DNR has to juggle a lot of conflicting interests and certainly earns some of the criticism that is directed their way in the process. They, however, do a lot better job than we as hunters would do though. The DNR at least has no desire to kill the golden goose... while us hunters would fight each other to be the ones to do so despite the detriment to all.

Just to clarify, it wasn`t the DNR that shoved the obr onto Hoosier hunters. It was the Indiana Natural Resources Commission. They`re NOT wildlife biologists, they`re civilians. This was political, because there`s no biological rationale for this idiotic move. And don`t be too surprised when even more crap gets shoved down our throats to further appease the trophy guys.

 

[Twangbanger]

How does the one buck rule negatively impact the state's whitetail population?

What is the legitimate difference between a 180# doe and a 180# buck, both dead and ready for the processor? Aside from the nut sack that is.

Why are two dead bucks better than one dead buck and one dead doe?

I have never been able to understand why it matters to a meat hunter if they kill a buck or a doe or why a young buck holds more "value" than a doe.

Exactly, they're really trophy hunters after all, just a different type.

It's an entitlement mentality.

"Ah want mah sixpoint bux cuz ah paid for them."

 

[phylodog]

Exactly, they're really trophy hunters after all, just a different type.

It's an entitlement mentality.

"Ah want mah sixpoint bux cuz ah paid for them."

Some people just need a boogeyman I reckon.

 

[greg]

How does the one buck rule negatively impact the state's whitetail population?

What is the legitimate difference between a 180# doe and a 180# buck, both dead and ready for the processor? Aside from the nut sack that is.

Why are two dead bucks better than one dead buck and one dead doe?

I have never been able to understand why it matters to a meat hunter if they kill a buck or a doe or why a young buck holds more "value" than a doe.

Don't worry you won't get that answer from the anti OBR Klan...

 

[bwframe]

Wow...

 

[gregr]

How does the one buck rule negatively impact the state's whitetail population?

What is the legitimate difference between a 180# doe and a 180# buck, both dead and ready for the processor? Aside from the nut sack that is.

Why are two dead bucks better than one dead buck and one dead doe?

I have never been able to understand why it matters to a meat hunter if they kill a buck or a doe or why a young buck holds more "value" than a doe.

I`ve never understood why the trophy guys think they ought to decide for everyone else what they may shoot...

 

[gregr]

I for one was not easily convinced it would work but I know that it did. Individual experiences may vary considerably based on a myriad of other factors but the mature/record quality bucks coming out of Indiana prior to the OBR and the numbers coming out after is absolutely telling. If there is evidence to the contrary I would be interested in seeing it. I'm certainly no expert but one thing I have paid attention to for the past 35 years is the buck quality produced in this state and it has undoubtedly improved.

There was a time when IL was bringing in millions of dollars to their state economy each year from out of state hunters wanting to kill a brute. They almost had a monopoly for a few years there, they were THE destination to go. Now many of the other states have decided to manage their resources in a similar fashion and IL has all but lost its standing as the place to go.

For the government types, whitetail are nothing more than a nuisance they have to contend with. Try to squeak as much money out of them as possible while trying to pacify the lobbyists from the Insurance companies.

 

[gregr]

for what it's worth, I hunt mainly for meat, and you're not my enemy. Private landowners can do whatever they want as far as I'm concerned.

Absolutely private landowners can do whatever they want. I`ve never heard anyone say a thing contrary to that. I just wish the trophy guys would stop trying to dictate to everyone else what they can shoot.

 

[gregr]

Exactly, they're really trophy hunters after all, just a different type.

It's an entitlement mentality.

"Ah want mah sixpoint bux cuz ah paid for them."

 

[1nderbeard]

Absolutely private landowners can do whatever they want. I`ve never heard anyone say a thing contrary to that. I just wish the trophy guys would stop trying to dictate to everyone else what they can shoot.

I've got a handy place to put a recommendation from anyone about what I can or cannot shoot....

In all seriousness, I have a buddy that has a rule to shoot only bucks. Young or small if it has antlers it's fair game. He will not shoot a doe. He isn't a trophy hunter, he personally feels that does shouldn't be shot. In talking to him he said it's up to each hunter to decide for themselves, I just don't do it.

Personally a full freezer is my trophy. Maybe later when I've had more/better opportunities I'll care more about trophies.

 

[Hoosier Carry]

I`ve never understood why the trophy guys think they ought to decide for everyone else what they may shoot...

I’ve never understood why the non-trophy guys think they ought to decide for everyone else what the seasons bag limit is….

See how dumb that sounds


The state has issued its limits. I have never been opposed to you shooting whatever you wish to shoot. The only thing I care about is there are deer to hunt when our children’s children are out there hunting.

 

[phylodog]

I`ve never understood why the trophy guys think they ought to decide for everyone else what they may shoot...

Can't answer those questions though, can ya?

I've never tried to dictate to anyone what they can shoot. Like I said, everyone needs a boogeyman.

 

[phylodog]

You just can't help yourself. Here, let me offer you some advice...these aren't good for deer hunting. You should consider trading them in on something more suited to the task.

I'm sick of the sorry ass "hunters" who couldn't bag a mature buck with their **** heap of a truck pissing and moaning in everyone's ear because their ability to hunt worth a **** doesn't exist so they have to find someone to bitch about.

Learn to hunt.

 

[gregr]

Can't answer those questions though, can ya?

I've never tried to dictate to anyone what they can shoot. Like I said, everyone needs a boogeyman.

What happened to the "rolling eyes"?

 

[greg]

You just can't help yourself. Here, let me offer you some advice...these aren't good for deer hunting. You should consider trading them in on something more suited to the task.

I'm sick of the sorry ass "hunters" who couldn't bag a mature buck with their **** heap of a truck pissing and moaning in everyone's ear because their ability to hunt worth a **** doesn't exist so they have to find someone to bitch about.

Learn to hunt.

Truth......