Is is time to topple Syria?

[Hohn]

I believe there are still KFOR forces in Bosnia. Not sure if US forces are among them, but probably.

When I was there in 2004, things were already winding down a good deal. We were closing Eagle Base. Mostly just a tiny remnant of NATO forces there hunting down PFWCs (war criminals) and trying to find and destroy weapons caches.

I'd LIKE to think after 8 years of "winding down" that we are actually out.

But I have no evidence to support that thought.

 

[hornadylnl]

When I was there in 2004, things were already winding down a good deal. We were closing Eagle Base. Mostly just a tiny remnant of NATO forces there hunting down PFWCs (war criminals) and trying to find and destroy weapons caches.

I'd LIKE to think after 8 years of "winding down" that we are actually out.

But I have no evidence to support that thought.

in 97, we weren't destroying any weapons. I went to several weapons storage sites, one of which contained an m60 and m16's we had given them.

 

[rambone]

 

[cobber]

They won't want to be associated with it. But our vaporizing millions of Muslims in retaliation, including women and children who had nothing specific to do with it, will override their desire to not be associated with it. They'll say we killed millions and millions of Muslims who were completely innocent, including women and children.

And sure, they won't keep their mouths shut, but they won't admit it either. They'll smugly gloat about how their true brothers brought us what we deserved. Nothing more. Just like Bin Laden never *actually admitted* in so many words to being behind 9/11. Just like Ahmedinejad is always talking about how Israel needs to be destroyed, but never actually threatens them in so many words.

I wasn't talking about retaliation on cities, although you are correct that civilians would be killed. Conventional weapons would not be that much less lethal, so I don't see what options we would have. Do something and be condemned, or do nothing and be ridiculed.

As Machiavelli wrote, it's better to be feared than loved.

That being said, I still would prefer to bring the legions home.

 

[cobber]

Our adversaries seem to have no problem doing this...

 

[chizzle]

If you do nothing else, please listen to the first speech (note it's from 2002) and see if you aren't struck with the accuracy of Ron's predictions. While I empathize with the plight of people in foreign lands who don't have the freedom and liberty that our country currently experiences, I think saying we should "send in troops" greatly oversimplifies the risks of the USA's policy of international intervention and continued deficit financing. That being said, I would be happy to support a policy of allowing many more visas from countries like Syria where political refugees are trying to escape political persecution.

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[U.S. Patriot]

The answer is no. We have lost too many brave Americans, and have spent to much damn money. I'm not going to sugar coat it. Let those people deal with their own ****. I'm sick of our idiotic Government playing World Police. We have our own problems to deal with. People die, it's a harsh fact of reality. We will be a third World country if we don't get our **** together. Jack ass Obama just gave money to the Egyptians, and for what?

 

[Blackhawk2001]

As far as nukes go? We've become the proverbial paper tiger. We aren't going to do anything about it until they detonate one in New York Harbor or Austin, TX, and then we'll pretend we don't know who it was. The Iranians will say we have to prove it, and the rest of the world will go along with that, and they'll all dance in the streets over several million dead Americans. The only thing that can stop them is genocide, and we aren't willing to do that as a country.

Don't be too certain we - as a nation - wouldn't be willing to commit a lesser "genocide" on a nation that detonates a nuclear device in one of our cities. We were certainly willing enough to burn entire cities to the ground as a policy during WWII, and there was plenty of sentiment for turning Afghanistan into a glass parking lot after 9/11. There hasn't been enough provocation - yet - to get the American Public's back up, but don't fool yourself that we're a Paper Tiger; you'll be making the same mistake Osama bin Laden made. It took 16 years, but we tracked him down in his "safe house" and killed him; we've done the same to much of his original organization, and continue to hunt and kill them. We've killed several times the number of innocents killed on 9/11/2001 and the killing isn't over.

 

[netsecurity]

The answer is no. We have lost too many brave Americans, and have spent to much damn money. I'm not going to sugar coat it. Let those people deal with their own ****. I'm sick of our idiotic Government playing World Police. We have our own problems to deal with. People die, it's a harsh fact of reality. We will be a third World country if we don't get our **** together. Jack ass Obama just gave money to the Egyptians, and for what?

I respect your opinion, and have felt the same way myself since Iraq, until now. I am in no way for a ground invasion. We could easily send drones to give the rebels the upper hand, and declare a no fly zone, perhaps enforced only by drones and remote AA launchers. This is not that expensive or difficult for us, and I'm sure we'd already have done it, if Russia and China didn't have their heads up Assad's ass just to get his oil.

It is in the world's best interest that the people of the Middle East be free to choose their own destiny. It is the massive poverty and oppression there I believe, which is what spawned the suicide bomber craze, and radical Islam.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

I respect your opinion, and have felt the same way myself since Iraq, until now. I am in no way for a ground invasion. We could easily send drones to give the rebels the upper hand, and declare a no fly zone, perhaps enforced only by drones and remote AA launchers. This is not that expensive or difficult for us, and I'm sure we'd already have done it, if Russia and China didn't have their heads up Assad's ass just to get his oil.

It is in the world's best interest that the people of the Middle East be free to choose their own destiny. It is the massive poverty and oppression there I believe, which is what spawned the suicide bomber craze, and radical Islam.

Democracy is a fragile bloom, my friend. If the Syrian rebels win their revolution, history indicates it will be "one man, one vote, one time" and the most ruthless, organized, radical group in the coalition will most likely gain power. That will be the Muslim Brotherhood and nothing much will change for the Syrian people except they will have newer and more popular (for awhile) masters. With such an outcome likely, we have absolutely NOTHING to gain by helping either side.

 

[hooky]

Democracy is a fragile bloom, my friend. If the Syrian rebels win their revolution, history indicates it will be "one man, one vote, one time" and the most ruthless, organized, radical group in the coalition will most likely gain power. That will be the Muslim Brotherhood and nothing much will change for the Syrian people except they will have newer and more popular (for awhile) masters. With such an outcome likely, we have absolutely NOTHING to gain by helping either side.

I think we're not helping the rebels because the brotherhood isn't as well organized as they need to be in order to assume power in Syria. Give it another month or so and Obama will start talking about the need to support the rebels. By that time, the brotherhood will have a better ground game underway.

This is purely speculation on my part and I have no real evidence to support it.

 

[dhnorris]

the war will start in october......................................surprise

 

[Blackhawk2001]

the war will start in october......................................surprise

A war featuring the US starting in October, unless it is of truly short duration, will feature a different President ending it than starting it. Obama will get no "war bump" if he engages in one.

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

How did the whole free Libya thing work out ? Most folks don't know cause you don't hear a thing about it nowadays .

It didn't work at all .

Speaking of Libya

Red Cross attacked with rockets, grenades in Libya - Yahoo! News

Red Cross attacked with rockets, grenades in Libya

Another time bomb of our guberments/our creation waiting to blow in our faces .

IMO , at this point a blind man should be able to see that there's been too many "isolated incidents" and "coincidences" for this BS to be anything other than planned .

 

[.38 Special]

The country is broke and we're still stationed in the middle east with no end in sight. (can't take any political promises seriously)

The economy isn't getting better by starting these ridiculous armed conflicts to help who?... Syria? Shame there is so much killing taking place but like many others have said so far, helping won't spread any freedom there. It'll just be a different king to rule. The U.S.A. shouldn't be involved in any armed conflict (can't call it a war because we haven't been in one since WWII) unless we're declaring a declaration of War. America wins wars, no these fake "wars" (i.e. war on terrorism)

This will turn into another occupation that will never have an end because there is no clear goal and it will send us into more debt that my generation and ones behind me will foot the bill for.

 

[Hotdoger]

I think we're not helping the rebels because the brotherhood isn't as well organized as they need to be in order to assume power in Syria. Give it another month or so and Obama will start talking about the need to support the rebels. By that time, the brotherhood will have a better ground game underway.

This is purely speculation on my part and I have no real evidence to support it.

I think we are helping the rebels. It is just covert.

 

[Hohn]

I believe there are still KFOR forces in Bosnia. Not sure if US forces are among them, but probably.

I did some work ramping down Eagle Base near Tuszla in 2004. I doubt that stuff is still up and running 8 years later. It was already mostly closed back then.

Pretty awkward to have to cross an active minefield just get from airfield to chow hall.

 

[Liberty1911]

Wholesale slaughter of humans is not something I think we can morally tolerate.

Are you proposing the US military invade abortion clinics?

 

[IndyDave1776]

Are you proposing the US military invade abortion clinics?

Unfortunately, I got the 'spread the rep' scold.

 

[Regionnus Rattis]

17,000 already dead in Syria. I don't think we can sit on the sidelines and let Iran help Syria massacre these people, even if they are members of the Muslim Brotherhood. Wholesale slaughter of humans is not something I think we can morally tolerate.

Now is the time for Obama to show fierce leadership, and to give China and Russia an ultimatum. This should not be an East vs. West situation, it should be a humanitarian effort from all sides. What do you think Obama will do?

Iran general: Reprisals await 'Arabs' over Syria | Fox News

Aren't the Syrian "rebels" fighting an oppressive government? Maybe that's why Obama isn't in there helping to arm the rebels to help them fight back with better weapons against Asad. Sounds like a Second Amendment kinda thing over there and the rebels are doing a pretty damn good job of fighting with the armament they have.

It's too close of a connection to here back home. Here they are spinning it to strictly home defense with even more limited arms. At least the rebels have automatic and semi-automatic firepower to fight back the oppressive government.