Indiana Senator introduces bill for training requirements

[Bennettjh]

Yes, we are all responsible for being competent with our firearms.

NO, we do not need a government mandated roadblock restricting and infringing on our rights
no matter how good of an idea "uncle ben" thinks it is.

I fully support people getting training...voluntarily. I would no more support manditory training for gun ownership or carry than I would reading comprehension testing prior to exercising one's right to vote. Well meaning people open the floodgates of allowing conditions upon rights and then realize later that they have no rights anymore.

Contacted my Senator.

 

[ATM]

...I dont see training requirements for the ability to CARRY as all that bad. Now to be able to POSSESS or BUY a gun? Thats a different story. If they try that sh** I'll be standing shoulder to shoulder with you.

So you support the right to KEEP arms but not the right to BEAR them? Better think that through.

I just dont see how being properly trained and educated to use a deadly weapon is all that evil.

Nonsense, that is a fictitious argument. Nobody has claimed that being trained is even remotely evil.

 

[Scutter01]

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...mendment/325938-handgun-training-indiana.html

Why on earth would I ever support yet another barrier to firearm ownership? And what are they offering in return for this concession on our part? Oh, that's right.

NOTHING.


C'mon, just do this one little thing. It's no big deal. We promise it's the last thing. Honest! It's so reasonable. You're reasonable, right? It's just common sense to want training with a dangerous weapon, right?

How many times are you going to fall for that line before you put your foot down and tell YOUR EMPLOYEES to stop taking away your Rights?

 

[IndyDave1776]

Who says you have to have a drivers license to own a car? How about to drive it on your personal property where you arent endangering others' lives?

I dont see training requirements for the ability to CARRY as all that bad. Now to be able to POSSESS or BUY a gun? Thats a different story. If they try that sh** I'll be standing shoulder to shoulder with you.

I just dont see how being properly trained and educated to use a deadly weapon is all that evil.

First, you started with a good thought and ran the wrong direction with it. As BunnyKid previously indicated, there is a definitive answer for this question regarding the comparison with driving:

[h=2]Article [IX][/h]The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Second, your distinction between having a weapon at home and carrying it is not a tenable argument:

[h=2]Article [II][/h]A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

As you can read, the founders already answered that question.

Third, no one is arguing that training is inherently bad. In fact, most consider it a good thing. The problem is when it becomes a .gov mandate. In case you failed to notice, the government generally does not act in your interests but rather those of selected pressure groups or the officeholders themselves. You may also notice that a right, by definition, may not be limited by the government. You may be held responsible for damage done through unacceptable use of that right (for example, the right to carry a gun does not make it acceptable for me to shoot you) but any activity subject to .gov approval, license, or other preemptive requirements is not function as a right by definition. The practical problem is that once this door is opened, it is entirely possible to set the training requirements so high that a Navy SEAL would have a tough time meeting the requirements. At that point, what happened to your right? That's right, it is gone, existing in name only. It reminds me of a movie which addressed civil rights a few decades back in which the white guy goes to register to vote and has to pass a literacy test which consisted of spelling a remarkably simple word. Then a black guy walks in and the clerk demands that he recite a certain section of the state constitution from memory and interpret it to her satisfaction. Do you really want your rights administered this way?

 

[mrjarrell]

Remind me, which one of the first ten amendments protects one's right to drive a car?

U.S. Constitution › Ninth Amendment



[h=2]Amendment IX[/h]The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

This one.

 

[Scout]

Supposing Indiana offered a second license, maybe as an endorsement on your LTCH, that would be the itraining needed for reciprocity with other states. Completely voluntary of course, like opting to get a Utah license. You cojld still get the no training pink paper, or a training reciprocal green/orange/fuschia whatever.

 

[Expat]

Everything always works better with more government involvement.

 

[IndyDave1776]

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...mendment/325938-handgun-training-indiana.html

Political compromise at its best hinges on the notion that you can pick up the turd by the clean end and usually in practice isn't a call for compromise (in which both sides give and gain something) but rather a unilateral capitulation, just smaller than giving the other side everything they want at one sitting.

As many times as you have reminded us of this, I would think it would start soaking in.

 

[RobbyMaQ]

So they wish to add "and has received 8 hours of training" to:
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, as long as they are over 18, pass a background check, have a piece of paper/license, do not go onto school grounds, or property being used for a school function, or a school bus, or on aircraft, in an airport, at the state fair, or in a shipping port or casino boat, or on state & federal gov't property, shall not be infringed."

Yeah... it's just another 7 words... what's the big deal?

 

[Scutter01]

Supposing Indiana offered a second license, maybe as an endorsement on your LTCH, that would be the itraining needed for reciprocity with other states. Completely voluntary of course, like opting to get a Utah license. You cojld still get the no training pink paper, or a training reciprocal green/orange/fuschia whatever.

I have a better idea. Instead of kowtowing to every state that refuses to recognize our Right, why don't we work to convince them of the error of their ways?

You know what will happen if you have two licenses? Eventually one of them is seen as redundant or a waste of money. I wonder which one that would be?

 

[4sarge]

Never, but it never ceases to Amaze me that some folk here at INGO are willing to give up their Freedom without a Fuss

 

[Dirtebiker]

Sorry, training for the ability to exercise a right? Hell no.

This!!!
training is a great thing, and a good idea for ALL of us!
But NOT to be required!

SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!

 

[Scutter01]

Never, but it never ceases to Amaze me that some folk here at INGO are willing to give up their Freedom without a Fuss

I'ma just self-quote my own sig here:

What Rights have you agreed to compromise away today? What did you get in return? Nothing? So, you didn't compromise, you just gave them away. FOR NOTHING. Do you place such little value on your Rights that you'll sell them for NOTHING?!

I'm going to demand that you give me your house and your car. When you refuse, I will order you to give me just your car, and then I will say "See? I compromised! I only took your car!" Allowing you to keep your own house and only taking your car is not a compromise.

Under no circumstances will I support any further infringements on my Rights. We have too many laws on the books as it is. The only gun lawsI want to see are ones that return our stolen Rights to us.

I REFUSE TO BUDGE ONE INCH.

Gun owners have been giving an inch at a time and now we're ten miles away from where we were when we started. Stop giving in to the people trying to take your guns. Just. Stop.

 

[rockhopper46038]

No surprise from a Demoncrat.

Yes, this one is a Democrat. One of those especially foolish urban Democrats that Indianapolis repeatedly saddles itself with. But make no mistake; there are plenty of foolish (also mostly urban) Republicans who would sell the Constitution down the river for a vote.

Training is good. I take every opportunity to encourage it.

Mandatory training is a non-starter. First and foremost; unconstitutional. Second; as someone mentioned, there will be a politician that would decide to "tweak" such a law so that (for example) the mandated training classes only take place on the 5th Friday of each month, by the light of a blue moon, at the Boonville Conservation Club range, subject to administrative cancellation.

I'm with Kirk; if government wants to employ some of the "social engineering" they are so fond of to encourage gun owners to obtain training, they ought to make it straight up, top line tax deductible. Or even better, make it a tax credit.

 

[Faine]

Is it bad that I was sitting here thinking, "well, they'll grandfather me in and we'll end up with more state reciprocity than Utah." Don't get me wrong here, I don't support jumping through hoops for "approval" to exercise my rights but that was my first thought.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

You know what will happen if you have two licenses? Eventually one of them is seen as redundant or a waste of money. I wonder which one that would be?

Oh, oh, oh, pick me, pick me, I'm ever so smart, I know, I know . . .

 

[GONZO!!!]

Do you know why we are one of the few states where you can ride a motorcycle without a helmet?

Because the motor rights advocacy grous are very vocal and exercise their right to VOTE...they make no soft stance about their rights

We, as responsible law-abiding firearm owners need to be respectful yet forceful in our demand of our rights.

Let them know in plain English that their jobs WILL be in jeopardy at election. I tell them that I will vote a rparty lines and Vote for anyone who opposes them ....one thing I have found is that more than social justice, more than individual freedoms and liberties...what they care more about is staying in office....take that from them with sound of your voice, the words of your pen, and your vote

 

[Scutter01]

Is it bad that I was sitting here thinking, "well, they'll grandfather me in and we'll end up with more state reciprocity than Utah." Don't get me wrong here, I don't support jumping through hoops for "approval" to exercise my rights but that was my first thought.

Yes. It is extremely bad. You're suffering from "Well, it doesn't affect me so, eff everyone else" disease. It's why we have so many gun laws now. The hunters support pistol laws because it doesn't affect their hunting. The self-defense carriers support rifle bans because it doesn't affect their Glock, and so forth. ALL gun infringements should be removed. Not just the ones that don't personally affect you.

 

[ChaoticMunky]

What would be the effect of such a requirement?
I guess more states would allow us to carry with our Indiana LTCH because we would meet "their" requirements.

That's the ONLY benefit I see of them requiring training. I took it upon myself after I purchased my first handgun and obtained my LTCH to get training before I started to carry. I don't think it should be required, though.

 

[Scutter01]

What would be the effect of such a requirement?
I guess more states would allow us to carry with our Indiana LTCH because we would meet "their" requirements.

That's the ONLY benefit I see of them requiring training.

Really? I didn't see that anywhere in the text of the bill, nor do I see any agreements with other states pending a training requirement. Are you suggesting adding training in the hopes that maybe it will make those states happy? This is what we're doing now? We're handing away our Rights so that other states will MAYBE approve of us? That sounds like a pretty big gamble, if you ask me. It's not a wager I'd like to make, thank you very much.