Indiana Constitutional Carry-Summer Study thread (2017)

[T.Lex]

It is a tool to help stop crime. It is not the only tool.

There are dozens, hundreds (depending on how you count), of tools that would help stop crime that we can't use because of the constitution or common decency.

Taking this specific tool out of the toolbox will barely move the needle.

 

[Thor]

Rep Judy: Would CC impact on the right to Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness? NO

Would human sacrifice impact the right to Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness? Yes.

 

[Thor]

NRA on stage. Hope to dispel some of the myths and misinformation. This is not new or unprecedented. VT has never required a permit.

 

[Thor]

Permit free carry does not allow criminals to carry or purchase a firearm. A permit does not change who can or where you can carry.

 

[Thor]

Criminals already carry concealed firearms, this does not affect them, they will carry anyway.

No states that have implemented CC have devolved to the wild west.

 

[Thor]

AK passed it in '03. Homicides with handguns 21 in '03, since then they have decreased to 1 in '09. AZ mid 200's 269 in 09, passed CC in 2010 and the numbers continue to drop after the fact.

No mass lawlessness, no mayhem. It did not impact crime in a negative way.

 

[Thor]

In AZ and WY the requests for permits have gone up since passing CC...for reciprocity reasons.

 

[Thor]

There is no evidence that having or not having a permit process impacts the safety of LEO. In the states where the law changed the number of police shootings either didn't change or went down.

 

[Thor]

Bray, what about states that opened it up to residents only?

NRA - some states have chosen an incremental approach to opening up rights to American citizens.

How about carrying government ID while carrying?

We have not opposed that, no position.

Bray - would other felons than violent be able to carry firearms?

Federal laws still apply, no felons can carry.

 

[Thor]

Young: NICCS is still in place, a permit or not doesn't change the ability to purchase a firearm.

Discussion on expungement laws. You can't buy one legally with or without a permit so what's the point?

 

[Thor]

Is there somewhere we can listen or watch this?

https://iga.in.gov/legislative/2017/meeting/watchlive/8f51d4fc-3c00-4ba8-b3b2-8a13a11a6510/

 

[Thor]

Taylor: arguing statistics provided...doing math in public. Thinks he's playing a gotcha. Gotta look at the ratios, at the bottom of the FBI sheet...

NRA guy...confusion, I don't understand.

Taylor, jumping between years and descriptions...I have no idea what this loon is saying except he thinks the graph line going down means gun murders is going up. The facts must support my conclusions!

 

[Thor]

NRA guy = Dr Kulbache (sp?) do you know how may members of the NRA are in IN?

Not off hand but over 100k.

Young: Because a lot of people have testified here today brought up how many people they represent...the NRA represents a lot more.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

How about carrying government ID while carrying?

We have not opposed that, no position.

Lol. What is the point of that? Cops cannot stop me to ascertain who I am so I just keep high stepping down the street.

Carry a .gov ID? For what? To what purpose? What makes them think if I am stopped that I would have to "show ID" like this is New Jersey or some other vile place? Why won't I just smile and wiggle my eyebrows?

Going to make it a misdemeanor? A felony? Carry a passport or DL or we put you in jail for 6 months to 2.5 years? Insanity.

 

[Thor]

Guy Relford

The idea that a licensing requirement is a disincentive to commit murder is ludicrous. If they are not afraid of the death penalty or 65 years in prison a year for not having a permit dissuading them is silly.

 

[Thor]

Lol. What is the point of that? Cops cannot stop me to ascertain who I am so I just keep high stepping down the street.

Carry a .gov ID? For what? To what purpose? What makes them think if I am stopped that I would have to "show ID" like this is New Jersey or some other vile place? Why won't I just smile and wiggle my eyebrows?

Going to make it a misdemeanor? A felony? Carry a passport or DL or we put you in jail for 6 months to 2.5 years? Insanity.

Agreed. I thought his response lame.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

NRA guy = Dr Kulbache (sp?) do you know how may members of the NRA are in IN?

Not off hand but over 100k.

And five to six times that number claim to be NRA members.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Agreed. I thought his response lame.

Wish I had the opportunity to go. I hope Guy get some punches in.

"Carry .gov ID" Pfffft.

"Citizen, stop and show me your papers."

Me, high stepping down the street:

 

[Thor]

Guy - it's a crime to point a gun. (unwarranted) Pointing a gun get's you sent to jail. Having a permit changes none of this. Simple possession shouldn't be a crime, misuse should be. Existing laws suffice without the LTCH.

 

[Thor]

Guy - it's hard to explain to law abiding citizens why they are being prosecuted by the state even though they are within the constitutional provisions. Example of a guy who had applied, got his LTCH 10 days after arrest, IN didn't care...go directly to jail. No other crime committed.