No numbers, but I cannot imagine they do very often. Think about it. First off, there's no duty to inform, and as such, the officer will not know I have a weapon in the first case in most instances. Secondly, if an officer finds it while searching you, you are already doing something , so the officer isn't just taking your gun to run it, he's taking it from you for his safety.
If this practice results in rainbows and unicorn farts, I'd still be against it.
That was the dumbest thing I've seen in a while. Sooo over dramatized.This video is crazy funny!
YouTube - BUSTED: The Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encounters
These people made it.
Just Say 'No' to Police Searches | FlexYourRights.org
I think they are also affiliated with the ACLU, but the video is great!!!
Wow...some people either watch aay too much television or are just plain paranoid.I don't know if there is law on this point or not, but there probably is. Even if there is not, failing to follow the officer's legal instructions will definitely end you up in front of a judge, and you can bet that the deck will be stacked against you.
I do not like what I'm about to say, I do not agree with what I'm about to say, but I think it is the correct answer: "Do what the officer tells you."
On the roadside, you will not win against the police, for in the words falsely attributed to George Washington but still true, "Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."
Document everything ASAP, including how many times you politely said, "Officer, I do not consent to any searches." or words to that effect. If you think you have a civil case, contact an attorney and follow up on it. If the attorney thinks you have a civil case, follow his/her advice and do not discuss it on an internet or any other forum until the case is resolved.
IANAL, IDPOoTV, IDSIAHIELN, and TINLA disclaimers all apply.
Blessings,
Bill
While I can only attempt to explain why it would take that long to get your weapon back (I'm sure the Crime Lab is that backed up) I can tell you that yes, your weapon would have been taken before you were transported by EMS. Leaving a weapon on someone while they are passed out in the back of an ambulance isn't a good idea. Chances are they might come around and there you are alone with one paramedic or EMT who is not armed. Not to mention the possibility of an accidental discharge while moving you. Besides, they don't know you from Adam. For all they know you just murdered 4 adults and 3 children when you attempted to rob a drug house before your accident. I'm sure it was an inconvenience to you...it would be to me as well. But everything that was done was done so for a reason. I'm sure the weapon was ran through a ballistics database of weapons that are reported stolen or used in crimes. Imagine something for a moment. You pick up the paper in the morning and read that some guy walked out of the hospital and picked up his weapon from the property room that had been used the night before to murder an eldery man and his wife in a home invasion. He then went to a grade school and took control of the school and in the process killed a 10 year old and three 7 year olds plus two teachers. But not before, because they handed him a loaded weapon at the property room, he shot two innocent people in the parking lot across Alabama Street from the City-County Building. This is why those precautions are taken. Not to inconvenience you or to purposely be a pain in the rump. No one said, "hey....let's just screw with this guy and keep his nice gun for a few weeks". Really....how upset would you be if that guy was allowed to do that because no one ran checks on all those weapons that come through the property room. And until the city decides to hire more technicians....they will continue to be backed up. I am sorry it took so long....and am glad you got it back intact and undamaged.In Indianapolis/Marion Co., I would not inform the officer unless he asks you to step out of your vehicle.
I was in an accident in November last year, and was unconscious for a while. During that time, IMPD arrived at the scene, helped EMS with getting me out of the vehicle (I assume), noticed and confiscated my sidearm. Didn't leave any paperwork, a business card, note or anything telling me they had done so. When I came to in the ER, about the first thing I thought about was my pistol (after realizing where I was) and when I found it gone asked the nurse attending me where it was. She didn't know, hadn't noticed my holster. Had no idea what happened to it. I checked my wallet for my insurance ID, and noticed my DL and my Permit was missing. I found them in my shirt pocket, so then I figured the police had my pistol.
Long story short, IMPD and Crime Lab had the pistol for 14 weeks. I learned IMPD policy is to confiscate any handgun 9mm or larger for "evaluation" with any stop. I went the day after I was released from the hospital to get it back. To "Apply" to get my handgun back right then, I was fingerprinted on paper, then fingerprinted again digitally and told to go home and wait for them to call me. I have yet to get a good answer on what there was to evaluate for 14 weeks. I talked to two attorneys (both supposed "gun friendly" and the first one was a hunter); first one told me to let 3 months lapse before doing anything, second one told me to call the IN ACLU. So much for attorneys.
The day I went down to retrieve my pistol (a Kimber, by the way), I was fingerprinted AGAIN, then had to wait at the Property Room window while an old guy went back to find it. He held it up while I looked at it to agree it was mine (I couldn't hold it, although they had two large Ty-Raps through it), and if I wanted my eight rounds, I had to come back the next day to get them. (An hour one way? No thanks) He then put the gun in a box, and sealed it with red nylon reinforced Evidence tape. I was than escorted out of the building to the corner of the parking lot, and then handed the box.
Now, in 49 years of living, I've had three speeding tickets and one parking ticket That's it. I would have thought that with a quick check of me and the gun they would have realized there was nothing to evaluate. Not so, I guess.
So, again, don't tell them for just a traffic stop. You won't like what happens if you do.
Here's a longer version as it happened;
Hoosier Hunting: Disarmed! -and need some help...
Sorry....didn't mean to urinate in your Wheaties....just telling how things are. I don't see the city springing for gun boxes on EMS apparatus or arming their EMS personnel.*** that noise! I'm sure the ambulance has a lockable area where they can put your property before they take it into the hospital. Maybe ambulance drivers should be trained in firearm safety if they live in a carry state? They can safety and secure the firearm in their glovebox until they get to the hospital. It can then be placed with the hospital security along with the rest of the person's property.
No reason for all this other ****.
**** that noise! I'm sure the ambulance has a lockable area where they can put your property before they take it into the hospital. Maybe ambulance drivers should be trained in firearm safety if they live in a carry state? They can safety and secure the firearm in their glovebox until they get to the hospital. It can then be placed with the hospital security along with the rest of the person's property.
No reason for all this other ****.
Language!!! And NO, the local medics WILL NOT take a weapon with them. They will call us if they are taking a patient to the hospital and they have a gun. We are required to take it to the property room for safe keeping. The medics wont take it, the hospital wont take it and I cannot keep it in the trunk of my car until you get released form the hospital. We are not screwing around with you or playing games. Most of us are pro-gun people male and female officers alike. However, we have rules to follow and we do.**** that noise! I'm sure the ambulance has a lockable area where they can put your property before they take it into the hospital. Maybe ambulance drivers should be trained in firearm safety if they live in a carry state? They can safety and secure the firearm in their glovebox until they get to the hospital. It can then be placed with the hospital security along with the rest of the person's property.
No reason for all this other ****.
(the above is edited in view of Fenway's post)F**k that noise! I'm sure the ambulance has a lockable area where they can put your property before they take it into the hospital. Maybe ambulance drivers should be trained in firearm safety if they live in a carry state? They can safety and secure the firearm in their glovebox until they get to the hospital. It can then be placed with the hospital security along with the rest of the person's property.
No reason for all this other bulls**t.
You're upset...and I don't blame you. 14 weeks is a long time. But until the city comes off the cash to hire more technicians that probably won't change. (I don't work for the Crime Lab so I can't quote normal processing times) My guess is that your weapon, as a lower priority, sat for weeks on a shelf behind weapons known to have been used during the commission of a crime. I wasn't excusing IMPD's policies. Just stating possibilities as to why your situation was the way it was. I don't write IMPD's policies.Public Servant;
I had (and have) no problem with the police taking control of the weapon while I was incapacitated, and have said so elsewhere. I did not expect the EMS techs to either ignore it or control it themselves.
That said;
14 weeks is unacceptable. As I said, a quick search of my name for any "priors" would have turned up two recent speeding tickets (last ten years), a speeding ticket from 25 years ago, and a parking ticket (promptly paid, all of them). Nothing more. Not even a brush with the law. I'm a long-time LTCH permitee. I'm not a criminal, nor have I ever shown any criminal tendencies. So I'm pretty insulted being treated as one. Your tale of me possibly being a multiple murderer, even as a worst case scenario to try and excuse IMPD's policy, is also insulting and completely over the line.
All of us are supposed to be "innocent until proven guilty". That was the old time thought at least. The tiny, almost intifestimal chance that I could have done what you described is the chance we take as Americans to be free.
With today's technology, checking me and checking the gun's serial number should in no way take 14 weeks. Nor should I have had to endure the attitude I did from IMPD and the Citizen's Services Division because I wouldn't roll over and be quiet.
I should have gotten a receipt for the firearm from the reporting officer.
I should have been able to retreive my handgun within a week
I should have been treated with a LOT more respect than I received
Unless there was a compelling reason (past history) my handgun shouldn't have been fired (and not cleaned) for forensic testing. This is the USA, not Europe. Remember; Innocent Until Proven Guilty
I should have been better informed of the "whys" my firearm was being withheld from me and "evaluated", including what entailed "evaluation".
Here's a scenario for you;
Instead of me, the person in the accident was a woman, with a handgun in her purse, and it was confiscated for "evaluation". She's barely scraping by, but the gun was that important to her. You see, the woman has two TRO's on an ex-husband who's repeatedly threatened and stalked her, and the gun was purchased because she understood "when seconds count, the police are only minutes away". Now, because of IMPD and the Crime Lab, that sense of security has been taken from her for 12 to 14 weeks. What does she do when he starts beating the back door in? When you show up to process the scene, do you watch as she's loaded into the ambulance (if she's lucky) and tell her "Hey, you've only got another 8 weeks, and they should be done with your gun. You' should have it before you get out of the hospital"
I'm still filing a formal Complaint with IMPD and with the Mayor's office. Just not acceptable policy.
I can understand your concern. We take several hundred guns to the property room every week. Some for safe keeping, some as evidence, and some to be destroyed (owners don't want them any more). I think we have 2 civilian employees in the firearm section. We test ALL guns coming in. Nothing about guilt, just how it is. Sorry about the rudeness, sadly it is not uncommon with city employees. They are paid 18,000yr so people can yell, curse, and belittle them. They get a little brash as a result. When have you EVER known a government entity to be efficient at anything? IT should be faster but no one wants to spend the money to make it happen. Heck, DNA tests can take a year to get around to.Public Servant;
I had (and have) no problem with the police taking control of the weapon while I was incapacitated, and have said so elsewhere. I did not expect the EMS techs to either ignore it or control it themselves.
That said;
14 weeks is unacceptable. As I said, a quick search of my name for any "priors" would have turned up two recent speeding tickets (last ten years), a speeding ticket from 25 years ago, and a parking ticket (promptly paid, all of them). Nothing more. Not even a brush with the law. I'm a long-time LTCH permitee. I'm not a criminal, nor have I ever shown any criminal tendencies. So I'm pretty insulted being treated as one. Your tale of me possibly being a multiple murderer, even as a worst case scenario to try and excuse IMPD's policy, is also insulting and completely over the line.
All of us are supposed to be "innocent until proven guilty". That was the old time thought at least. The tiny, almost intifestimal chance that I could have done what you described is the chance we take as Americans to be free.
With today's technology, checking me and checking the gun's serial number should in no way take 14 weeks. Nor should I have had to endure the attitude I did from IMPD and the Citizen's Services Division because I wouldn't roll over and be quiet.
I should have gotten a receipt for the firearm from the reporting officer.
I should have been able to retreive my handgun within a week
I should have been treated with a LOT more respect than I received
Unless there was a compelling reason (past history) my handgun shouldn't have been fired (and not cleaned) for forensic testing. This is the USA, not Europe. Remember; Innocent Until Proven Guilty
I should have been better informed of the "whys" my firearm was being withheld from me and "evaluated", including what entailed "evaluation".
Here's a scenario for you;
Instead of me, the person in the accident was a woman, with a handgun in her purse, and it was confiscated for "evaluation". She's barely scraping by, but the gun was that important to her. You see, the woman has two TRO's on an ex-husband who's repeatedly threatened and stalked her, and the gun was purchased because she understood "when seconds count, the police are only minutes away". Now, because of IMPD and the Crime Lab, that sense of security has been taken from her for 12 to 14 weeks. What does she do when he starts beating the back door in? When you show up to process the scene, do you watch as she's loaded into the ambulance (if she's lucky) and tell her "Hey, you've only got another 8 weeks, and they should be done with your gun. You' should have it before you get out of the hospital"
I'm still filing a formal Complaint with IMPD and with the Mayor's office. Just not acceptable policy.