I drew my weapon, was it the right thing to do

[wally05]

I'll leave it at this guys. If you (a reasonable person) felt your life was in danger, then the shooting should be justified. Some people have trouble bringing the whole situation together. It's a combination of things that make that feeling, not that you just got punched in the face, so you shot him.

All the details... "It was late at night and the men approaching me approached me from all around, making me feel like they were surrounding me. I rushed to my car and they surrounded my car. Due to their demeanor, I thought they were setting up to rob me or cause me bodily harm. The one put his hands on top of the inside of my door and punched me. I thought the rest of the guys on the other side of the vehicle were trying to distract me beforehand and would join in if the one guy kept attacking me..."

Tell the full story and if you can put in words what all came together to explain why you felt your life was in danger, then you're fine.

J706, Yes, we know if you just get hit in the face and that's all it was, you can't just shoot the guy. But, as pointed out from others, if that punch made you feel your life was in danger (maybe because now you can't see and he keeps coming), then I feel the shooting is good.

 

[j706]

Did you use a taser? Also i wear glasses and am blind without them. If i loose my glasses in a fight i am a sitting duck and my gun is no use to me because i could not aim it properly and risk hurting other people.

Yes I carry a Taser. It is a marvelous weapon and has saved countless lives and injury's. A Taser is not a very good close in weapon. It needs distance to be very effective.

Look guys, I am not an attorney. I don't have the answer to each and every question. My posts are my opinion and my opinion only. They are not golden and they are not law. All I can say is if you ever decide to use that gun, make very sure that you can back the use up with some very strong proof. That gun should be your very last resort. There should not be even the slightest doubt in your mind. Again I have seen way to many, other wise good decent people, have their lives, their family's lives destroyed because of overzealous, spontaneous , and heat of the moment decisions. It pains me to see that happen. If this entire thread gets one person to stop and consider what is at stake here...well it has been a good one.

Now I have got to go get some sleep. I don't want to be all sleepy tonight on shift and shoot someone that don't need shot. Later.

 

[haldir]

My very second call if I were ever to be in a shooting, on duty or off, will be too my two attorneys. Not so sure I agree with your last sentences though. I think if you were right and half way justified, you would whole bunch of cops on your side.

Twist may be the wrong word, but just the questioning that you were conducting in your posts I could see it would be easy to say the wrong thing because of the state your mind would be in after a shooting. I have no idea how I would react. I have never been one of those that have been able to say to hypotheticals, I would do this or say that. I don't really know. I think it would be easy to be confused if you were subjected to repeated intense questioning. I could also see how I could get ticked off after being asked the same thing a couple of times.

 

[Tommy2Tone]

Yeah we can keep going back and fourth but I'm not sure that is productive. Use this as a learning experience and just use common sense, do what you feel you have to do to live another day, and stay safe.

Thank you Chubbs and J706 for giving us all something to think about. I would also advice going over this scenario with your family and how it would have been handled so they know what to do. This is a whole other thread so ill leave it at that.

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

Keys were in same side pocket, so know i'm seating here for a split second thinking how am i going to get them with out putting the gun down. Didin't matter much because the solo mexican is at my door mumbling broken english or spanish. He's two buddies are at the passenger side fender. He puts his hands on the edge of my door [/quote]

Three on one and someone might just got shot. Whole different circumstance.

Maybe it's just the soldier in me but I see it as your in the kill zone of an ambush .

You are already surrounded by 3 potentially armed men and you don't (as of yet) , know their intentions . You can't get away without putting yourself further at risk by lowering your weapon to retrieve your keys .

The one on your side of the vehicle puts his hands on the door , it wouldn't take much to open it . While he has your attention , his friends could have ruined the rest of your short life .

I'm not saying blaze away , but ordering them to back away with your weapon drawn seems like a good survival tactic .

We may never know what they wanted but I'm pretty sure they weren't selling oranges .

 

[theweakerbrother]

If you let someone get close enough to punch you, you've already lost. If you draw or if they know you have a gun, and they are without punching distance they can grab your tool and potentially use it against you.

 

[Fletch]

If you let someone get close enough to punch you, you've already lost. If you draw or if they know you have a gun, and they are without punching distance they can grab your tool and potentially use it against you.

Man, I hate it when people grab my tool.

 

[No Time to Shoot]

Man, I hate it when people grab my tool.

 

[theweakerbrother]

Man, I hate it when people grab my tool.

 

[Roadie]

This thread scares the crap out of me. I have been trying to read up on what is considered a disparity of force, what is considered "life threatening situation" etc and etc.

If one guy attacks me, I have to take the beating?
What if it is two or three?
One guy with a knife? Still not a gun, so do I have to take the stabbing?
Is just pulling the gun, pointed at the ground, still brandishing? Depends on who you ask.
You take training, the prosecution says: "See! He was a trained killer!"

I am NOT a fighter. I have some medical conditions that could mean a well placed punch could do a LOT of damage.

So I feel like I am threatened, a guy with a knife attacks me, I pull my gun and shoot him. I am potentially facing both criminal and civil trials whether he lives or dies. I would be willing to face jail time to defend my family, but I really do not want to have a boyfriend named Bubba as a cell mate.

UGH!

 

[rmcrob]

This thread scares the crap out of me.

We must not arm ourselves without thoroughly understanding what we are taking on. It is a great responsibility, not to be taken lightly.

 

[Fletch]

So I feel like I am threatened, a guy with a knife attacks me, I pull my gun and shoot him. I am potentially facing both criminal and civil trials whether he lives or dies. I would be willing to face jail time to defend my family, but I really do not want to have a boyfriend named Bubba as a cell mate.

Yep, the legislative and possibly the executive branch gave you the license. The judicial isn't always on board.

Even obviously righteous shooters wind up having to go the distance to prove it. Be ready, because it could be you.

 

[Roadie]

We must not arm ourselves without thoroughly understanding what we are taking on. It is a great responsibility, not to be taken lightly.

Agreed. However, I am a very literal person. I want to see things laid out A then B then C, if D, then A, if E, then B, etc. There is so much disparity in gun laws etc, it is hard to "thoroughly understand". Yanno?

Yep, the legislative and possibly the executive branch gave you the license. The judicial isn't always on board.

Even obviously righteous shooters wind up having to go the distance to prove it. Be ready, because it could be you.

So much for logic eh? One would think, logically, they they should all be on the same page.

 

[XMil]

Uh Oh-not sure how my post above happened that way. Multi Quote?

To use multi-quote, click the "multi" icon on all the posts you want to quote. Then click on the regular quote icon and all the posts you checked will show up in your reply.

 

[Phil502]

Look at this case, recent, a permit carrier too. Not the same thing as the OP obviously but still interesting, I will be curious to see the sentence.

Self-defense rejected in shooting of cyclist | courier-journal.com | The Courier-Journal

 

[cosermann]

One guy with a knife? Still not a gun, so do I have to take the stabbing?

No. Knife = deadly force as far as I know. If someone gets hostile with a knife that's sufficient cause as far as I know.

 

[elaw555]

It seems to me that j706 is looking at this from a very different perspective that the majority of us are. His comments sound to me like they are coming from someone that has a responsibility to arrest a suspect and a responsibility to a superior to explain why he was forced to shoot (a police officer). The OP does not have any responsibilty to arrest, nor does he make a large organization liable to explain why an upstanding, surely law abiding illegal alien, was shot. There is a difference that j706 can't seem to see.

Also...

1. In my SUV if a six foot tall person was at my door they likely could not see a weapon unless it was being pointed at them.

2. If the person at the drivers side door only saw the weapon because it was being pointed at him then the OP likley prevented the crime from escalating further. Ill check, but I'm pretty sure the OP said the persons hands were IN the vehicle over the door because the window was open.

3. So how many times can I hit you in the face before you feel your life is being threatened and it is ok to use deadly force to end the threat? 6-7 times? Ten times? After one of your eyes has swollen shut? After the blood is in your eyes makes a realistic defense, even with your hands, impossible.

4. It sounds like from the OP that he retreated to his car, even though he had no legal duty to do so. He made it to the interior of the car and the person was at his door, making entry to the vehicle a likely threat. There were others involved who were surrounding the car making an exit from the vehicle on the other side dangerous, without knowing the intentions of the people surrounding the car. Where was the OP to further retreat? Turning on the vehicle and gunning it was dangerous, given that the OP would have needed one hand to hold his weapon and the other to possibly gain the needed distance had the person by the door attacked the OP with either a weapon or his hands. He had retreated to a point where he could retreat no more. What was he to do.

5. Your friend needed a better lawyer. If the facts you describe are correct it sounds like he had all his ducks in a row (of course based on the qiuck synopsis you provided) and I see nothing wrong with his actions, just an overzealous, anti-gun, pro-crime, prosecutor and a not worth his salt defense lawyer.

No disrespect intended, I don't worry that you will be. I just think you haven't yet looked at this from a civillian perspective yet. Your previous posts have all given me the impression that you were putting yourself in a police car on duty when this occurred IMHO.

Stay safe, and thanks for speaking your mind. I appreciate people who stick to their convictions.

 

[matthock]

Look at this case, recent, a permit carrier too. Not the same thing as the OP obviously but still interesting, I will be curious to see the sentence.

Self-defense rejected in shooting of cyclist | courier-journal.com | The Courier-Journal

Looks to be significantly more aggressive on the shooter's side in that case. Reading through the comments of people who have been following the case, apparently, the guy who got shot was backing up with his hands up after seeing the gun when he was shot, which was seen by multiple witnesses.

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

Look at this case, recent, a permit carrier too. Not the same thing as the OP obviously but still interesting, I will be curious to see the sentence.

Self-defense rejected in shooting of cyclist | courier-journal.com | The Courier-Journal

She said the man was reaching in her vehicle to strike her . I didn't read anything that says she was actually struck .

The witnesses said he took a step back with his hands in the air , palms up and then was shot .

I understand her fear but I don't think she should have shot him if he wasn't attacking , or retreating with hands in the air .

 

[AndersonIN]

Excellent post and article Matthock!

Several differences as mentioned, 1 man, not 3, and my statement mentioned that being surrounded by 3 and punched by 1, I'm still shooting!

But as the article and testimony mentioned he was backing off with hands raised. I think this is a perfect example of where this like the initial post here, it would have ended if she hadn't of shot the man! I'm sure he would have left on his bike and she would have went on her way!

I think the son getting out of the car and kicking the man after he had already been shot proved that there wasn't that much fear or they were really trying to avoid the situation!

Now I'm sure Obama would say the police acted stupidly in this instance and it was ALL RACIAL but that's another post! I've hijacked this one enough!