How heartless are you

[grizman]

This thread is ****ed up. I just want you sick freaks to know that.

You don't evaluate your parents and grandparents, by what they have to offer YOU, in terms of gold and gardening skills.

Play acting at SHTF scenarios.. fine. Do it all day.

Dreaming about how you are going to leave your family to die......

crosses a line. Seriously guys.

Be a survivalist, be a prepper, be a gun owner, shooter, be all that you can be.

But don't be a sick freak, who sits at work dreaming about imaginary scenarios where he would have to leave his parents to die.

That will warp your thinking.

Don't take hoarding to the level that you are unwilling to provide for the people who are in your care, and that includes your parents.

There is a word for people that self-centered, and it isn't a good word.

SHTF doesn't mean you suddenly are released from every responsibility that God has ever entrusted you with.

And your family, is your primary responsibility.

Not everyone believes in the Christian God, but to those who do, this verse doesn't have a "unless its SHTF, in which case, all bets are off."

"But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel."

Sorry if I have come off as offensive, but this whole thread struck me as EXTREMLY offensive.

Whats next weeks thread? "My 3 year old might slow me down, I will have to leave him behind?"

Slippery slope.

Agree 100%

Family is family regardless. We must be prepared to include the elderly in our plan. They have spent their lives teaching, protecting and guiding each and everyone of us all our lives. We owe them a life debt. Leaving them to die alone is a cowards act, do you not understand that telling you to leave them behind is a selfless act meant to increase your odds, on their part. It is not a release from your duty to protect and or provide for them. Each person has to make their own choice when/if the time comes.

Living with the knowledge that you did less than all possible caused the untimely death of anyone is a heavy burden to bear.

I have been in situations that required me to decide between increasing my odds of survival or increasing another's odds by placing my life/safety in jeopardy. I hold two Bronze Stars and a Silver Star that provide evidence of my response and convictions.

Being Heartless is for your enemies, not for our own!

NO MAN LEFT BEHIND, more than just words to me!

 

[RockofStrength]

This seems like something to work out before you're considering charging into a nursing home when the riots begin. If your grandparents/parents are still all there, mentally speaking, treat them like adults. Tell them everything, including your plans and how they do or do not fit with being able to survive in a world gone mad. Let them be part of your deliberations.

If they're suffering from dementia or the like and talking with them on that level is basically a lost cause...in that case they need care I cannot provide, setting aside any medications or special dietary needs they may have. My great-grandparents were not the kind to want to be a load, particularly if they couldn't pull their own weight and weren't likely to be able to do so ever.

To me it would seem more heartless to drag them out into the nightmare so that they can wither away while also putting their great-grandkids, grandkids, and/or children in greater danger and eating their food supplies.

 

[IndyPrepper]

This thread is ****ed up. I just want you sick freaks to know that.

You dont evaluate your parents and grandparents, by what they have to offer YOU, in terms of gold and gardening skills.

Play acting at SHTF scenarios.. fine. Do it all day.

Dreaming about how you are going to leave your family to die......

crosses a line. Seriously guys.

Be a survivalist, be a prepper, be a gun owner, shooter, be all that you can be.

But dont be a sick freak, who sits at work dreaming about imaginary scenarios where he would have to leave his parents to die.

That will warp your thinking.

Dont take hoarding to the level that you are unwilling to provide for the people who are in your care, and that includes your parents.

There is a word for people that self-centered, and it isnt a good word.

SHTF doesnt mean you suddenly are released from every responsibility that God has ever entrusted you with.

And your family, is your primary responsibility.

Not everyone believes in the Christian God, but to those who do, this verse doesnt have a "unless its SHTF, in which case, all bets are off."

"But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel."

Sorry if I have come off as offensive, but this whole thread struck me as EXTREMLY offensive.

Whats next weeks thread? "My 3 year old might slow me down, I will have to leave him behind?"

Slippery slope.

I don't believe the subject is wrong or anything like that. This post just like some others I have seen is purely bringing up conversation and making you think about what you would do should the need arise.

If my grandparents were on IV treatments or on ordered under 24 hour watch by a registered nurse then I would not be there to pick them up... I am in no way equiped nor qualifed to provide that kind of treatment. And honestly I might make things worse by picking them up.

My grandfather and grand mother are still living on their own, in their own home, even though the Alzheimers is quickly taking hold of my grandfather...

I would still be there to pick them up or arrange pickup for them to be transported to our farm down south.

I don't believe calling the responders to this thread "sick freaks" is justified... If you do not like a specific reponders post then point the finger at them not the group....

 

[grizman]

This seems like something to work out before you're considering charging into a nursing home when the riots begin. If your grandparents/parents are still all there, mentally speaking, treat them like adults. Tell them everything, including your plans and how they do or do not fit with being able to survive in a world gone mad. Let them be part of your deliberations.

If they're suffering from dementia or the like and talking with them on that level is basically a lost cause...in that case they need care I cannot provide, setting aside any medications or special dietary needs they may have. My great-grandparents were not the kind to want to be a load, particularly if they couldn't pull their own weight and weren't likely to be able to do so ever.

To me it would seem more heartless to drag them out into the nightmare so that they can wither away while also putting their great-grandkids, grandkids, and/or children in greater danger and eating their food supplies.

If properly prepared it would be no extra burden. I only have my 73 year old father and 96 year old MIL left unable to fend for themselves, that said I am prepared to include them. Better they pass among family than alone to me and the rest of my family. Once again each has to make that personal decision. There is no one absolute right answer that covers everyone.

I answered the OP question with the only option for me.

 

[flatlander]

This thread is ****ed up. I just want you sick freaks to know that.

You dont evaluate your parents and grandparents, by what they have to offer YOU, in terms of gold and gardening skills.

Play acting at SHTF scenarios.. fine. Do it all day.

Dreaming about how you are going to leave your family to die......

crosses a line. Seriously guys.

Be a survivalist, be a prepper, be a gun owner, shooter, be all that you can be.

But dont be a sick freak, who sits at work dreaming about imaginary scenarios where he would have to leave his parents to die.

That will warp your thinking.

Dont take hoarding to the level that you are unwilling to provide for the people who are in your care, and that includes your parents.

There is a word for people that self-centered, and it isnt a good word.

SHTF doesnt mean you suddenly are released from every responsibility that God has ever entrusted you with.

And your family, is your primary responsibility.

Not everyone believes in the Christian God, but to those who do, this verse doesnt have a "unless its SHTF, in which case, all bets are off."

"But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel."

Sorry if I have come off as offensive, but this whole thread struck me as EXTREMLY offensive.

Whats next weeks thread? "My 3 year old might slow me down, I will have to leave him behind?"

Slippery slope.

I'm a realist. I am NOT going to jeapordize the safety of my family of six to rescue 1 or 2. I don't "play" at SHTF scenarios. I see "realistic" scenarios and decide if I need to plan for them. If I see the need to prepare for them then I do, and make my decisions based on soul searching and research. I have no problem with making hard decisions and living with them. I had to make the decision to take my mother off ALL life support and watch her die. So don't start telling me I'm a "sick freak" because I'm willing to make the hard choices in life. The people that may be welcomed in a crisis know where I live and know I will do what I can to help them get there but WILL NOT sacrifice the security of my family to do it. If that's being selfish or self- centered in anybodies eyes then so be it.

Bob

 

[EvilBlackGun]

Sure do hope you are lucky, and

... don't break your leg coming out of your front door. I'd just take all your stuff and leave you ONE bullet. No kiss.

I would give them the biggest hug and kiss and give them a pistol. Then I would move on.

 

[RockofStrength]

If properly prepared it would be no extra burden. I only have my 73 year old father and 96 year old MIL left unable to fend for themselves, that said I am prepared to include them. Better they pass among family than alone to me and the rest of my family. Once again each has to make that personal decision. There is no one absolute right answer that covers everyone.

I answered the OP question with the only option for me.

I was thinking of people who are on feeding tubes or otherwise incapable of being supported by what I can provide. I too would want my grandparents to be able to die surrounded by family in relative peace, but starving them to death because I can't provide food they can eat seems unnecessarily cruel.

Totally agree with the bolded part.

 

[Sailor]

Its the interwebz, don't take it personal.

This thread is ****ed up. I just want you sick freaks to know that.

You dont evaluate your parents and grandparents, by what they have to offer YOU, in terms of gold and gardening skills.

Play acting at SHTF scenarios.. fine. Do it all day.

Dreaming about how you are going to leave your family to die......

crosses a line. Seriously guys.

Be a survivalist, be a prepper, be a gun owner, shooter, be all that you can be.

But dont be a sick freak, who sits at work dreaming about imaginary scenarios where he would have to leave his parents to die.

That will warp your thinking.

Dont take hoarding to the level that you are unwilling to provide for the people who are in your care, and that includes your parents.

There is a word for people that self-centered, and it isnt a good word.

SHTF doesnt mean you suddenly are released from every responsibility that God has ever entrusted you with.

And your family, is your primary responsibility.

Not everyone believes in the Christian God, but to those who do, this verse doesnt have a "unless its SHTF, in which case, all bets are off."

"But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel."

Sorry if I have come off as offensive, but this whole thread struck me as EXTREMLY offensive.

Whats next weeks thread? "My 3 year old might slow me down, I will have to leave him behind?"

Slippery slope.

 

[Kaiser]

This seems like something to work out before you're considering charging into a nursing home when the riots begin. If your grandparents/parents are still all there, mentally speaking, treat them like adults. Tell them everything, including your plans and how they do or do not fit with being able to survive in a world gone mad. Let them be part of your deliberations.

If they're suffering from dementia or the like and talking with them on that level is basically a lost cause...in that case they need care I cannot provide, setting aside any medications or special dietary needs they may have. My great-grandparents were not the kind to want to be a load, particularly if they couldn't pull their own weight and weren't likely to be able to do so ever.

To me it would seem more heartless to drag them out into the nightmare so that they can wither away while also putting their great-grandkids, grandkids, and/or children in greater danger and eating their food supplies.

Very well said, my thoughts exactually. Go talk to them and get their imput what do they want to do? Personally My mother knows multiple safe routes to the family farm in the applation foot hills. If she is not with us she will go on her own.

 

[jeremy]

In laying out protocols and other plans for bugging out, I realized that I have a major issue.

I've got elderly grandparents. 1 at a nursing home, 1 still attempting to live on his own. (Both are in their 80's)

In the event that the SHTF, big time, like the country is collapsing. What do you do?

Do you leave them some food/weapons/water and tell them you'll be back for them?
Do you try to bring them with you, knowing that it will greatly decrease your own chances of survival?

All depends on the reason why I am leaving the area...

 

[indytechnerd]

So, on the grandparents thing...I only have 2 left. They both are in their 80s, have had heart surgery, are on a laundry list of meds, and probably couldn't do any heavy lifting in SHTF. They would be a walking, eating, breathing encyclopedia, however. (this is where I say, if we were truly prepared, we'd have already sucked all of that knowledge outta their heads) Both of my grandfathers have done their bit, and have enemy marksmanship badges from WWII European Theater to prove it. Would I take them both along on a bug out, knowing that even if I have food for everyone, the lack of medicine and hard road would likely kill them quickly? I would love to say yes, but I'm not sure that I can.

I say that, because during SHTF, I have to be looking forward. I hear "if you're properly prepared, they'll be no burden". That's incorrect. They will be, sadly. Not so much because of food and preps, but the physicality of bugging out, and the mental/emotional weight of their health. I have small children, and I can only physically help so many people along. Do I drag along an 85yr old man with a bad heart, or do I carry an 8yr old child with his entire life ahead of him. Not only that, but for those of you who have kids, what does it do to them when the time comes and great grandpa TechNerd keels over, never to arise again?

We talk about survival here, and do so in a pretty serious tone (most of the time). Survival is not just about yourself, at least not longterm. We don't prep to 'make sure I get through this mess'. We prep for the continued survival of ourselves, our families, and by extension, our society. It is my opinion, that doing a frontal assault on shady acres to rescue grandma is a) counter-productive to survival as discussed here, and b) the most selfish act you could make in a SHTF situation.

It's a hard thing to say, but you/I/we gotta put on the big boy pants and look down the road to what lies ahead, not back up it at where we've been. I don't even have to have this conversation with my father, or grandfathers. They all know the score.

 

[sbcman]

This thread is ****ed up. I just want you sick freaks to know that.

You dont evaluate your parents and grandparents, by what they have to offer YOU, in terms of gold and gardening skills.

Play acting at SHTF scenarios.. fine. Do it all day.

Dreaming about how you are going to leave your family to die......

crosses a line. Seriously guys.

Be a survivalist, be a prepper, be a gun owner, shooter, be all that you can be.

But dont be a sick freak, who sits at work dreaming about imaginary scenarios where he would have to leave his parents to die.

That will warp your thinking.

Dont take hoarding to the level that you are unwilling to provide for the people who are in your care, and that includes your parents.

There is a word for people that self-centered, and it isnt a good word.

SHTF doesnt mean you suddenly are released from every responsibility that God has ever entrusted you with.

And your family, is your primary responsibility.

Not everyone believes in the Christian God, but to those who do, this verse doesnt have a "unless its SHTF, in which case, all bets are off."

"But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel."

Sorry if I have come off as offensive, but this whole thread struck me as EXTREMLY offensive.

Whats next weeks thread? "My 3 year old might slow me down, I will have to leave him behind?"

Slippery slope.

Thank you, thank you, thank you. I was about to check out of this thread until I read this. You've said all I have to say. Thanks again. Repped.

 

[fireblade]

This thread is ****ed up. I just want you sick freaks to know that.

You don't evaluate your parents and grandparents, by what they have to offer YOU, in terms of gold and gardening skills.

Play acting at SHTF scenarios.. fine. Do it all day.

Dreaming about how you are going to leave your family to die......

crosses a line. Seriously guys.

Be a survivalist, be a prepper, be a gun owner, shooter, be all that you can be.

But don't be a sick freak, who sits at work dreaming about imaginary scenarios where he would have to leave his parents to die.

That will warp your thinking.

Don't take hoarding to the level that you are unwilling to provide for the people who are in your care, and that includes your parents.

There is a word for people that self-centered, and it isn't a good word.

SHTF doesn't mean you suddenly are released from every responsibility that God has ever entrusted you with.

And your family, is your primary responsibility.

Not everyone believes in the Christian God, but to those who do, this verse doesn't have a "unless its SHTF, in which case, all bets are off."

"But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel."

Sorry if I have come off as offensive, but this whole thread struck me as EXTREMLY offensive.

Whats next weeks thread? "My 3 year old might slow me down, I will have to leave him behind?"

Slippery slope.

Ok...........i take a different approach to this if this thread gets family's to talk about a subject we don't talk about great.....worse case disaster and whats best to do to protect your family and other family member wishes and views....... Funny some people said the same thing (imaginary scenario ) for New Orleans the worse case could never happen.


This thread is not offensive it gets people talking about a taboo sensitive subject...In real life and death scenario tuff decisions are made and people do make sacrifice for the ones they love .......i have lived it and witness it, its the reality of a survival situation that can be forced on you

 

[CarmelHP]

Ok...........i take a different approach to this if this thread gets family's to talk about a subject we don't talk about great.....worse case disaster and whats best to do to protect your family and other family member wishes and views....... Funny some people said the same thing (imaginary scenario ) for New Orleans the worse case could never happen.


This thread is not offensive it gets people talking about a taboo sensitive subject...In real life and death scenario tuff decisions are made and people do make sacrifice for the ones they love .......i have lived it and witness it, its the reality of a survival situation that can be forced on you

If it was between vainly trying to save feeble elderly family members versus family children, which choice do you think grandma and grandpa are going to tell you to do? I know what I'd say in their shoes. "Do the best for the kids and don't look back, son."

 

[irishfan]

I have thought about this myself and to be honest....I really don't know. I have a child to care for and have tried telling my parents its time to put a little more back but it is falling on deaf ears.

 

[fireblade]

@dom1104 let me ask you this your in a accident your vehicle in a river ...its you and your grandmother who is 85 and your daughter who is 5 .....who get rescued first.........most people and the rescuer will grab the 5 year old .......do you find that offensive...its the reality of the survival situation .......factors are she elderly lived a life ......shes a child and has not and has a better chance of survival.....

Thats reality my friend its no different if a SHTF event happen your elderly family member who need alot of medical care and meds...... will be in a fragile state .......the reality of a survival situation were you must keep moving but the ill elderly family member can't keep up. Do you sacrifice your whole family ? 99% sure that elderly family member will make a sacrifice for there family and tell you to move on ...what do you do stay anyway??............ again this is why this subject should be talk about....

 

[churchmouse]

This thread is ****ed up. I just want you sick freaks to know that.

You dont evaluate your parents and grandparents, by what they have to offer YOU, in terms of gold and gardening skills.

Play acting at SHTF scenarios.. fine. Do it all day.

Dreaming about how you are going to leave your family to die......

crosses a line. Seriously guys.

Be a survivalist, be a prepper, be a gun owner, shooter, be all that you can be.

But dont be a sick freak, who sits at work dreaming about imaginary scenarios where he would have to leave his parents to die.

That will warp your thinking.

Dont take hoarding to the level that you are unwilling to provide for the people who are in your care, and that includes your parents.

There is a word for people that self-centered, and it isnt a good word.

SHTF doesnt mean you suddenly are released from every responsibility that God has ever entrusted you with.

And your family, is your primary responsibility.

Not everyone believes in the Christian God, but to those who do, this verse doesnt have a "unless its SHTF, in which case, all bets are off."

"But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel."

Sorry if I have come off as offensive, but this whole thread struck me as EXTREMLY offensive.

Whats next weeks thread? "My 3 year old might slow me down, I will have to leave him behind?"

Slippery slope.

Easy there son. I have tears in my eyes just thinking about what would happen to those I love and friends I care for. The OP was just stating facts. Question was "What to do" and for who.
We all have our own family structures and differing beliefs. My Father is sick and under constant medical care. No way he could even be moved. If the infrastructure collapsed (Electric, gas, water etc) he would be gone before I could get to him. Sad to say but he would be the least of my worries. Wife's mother knows to come here if possible. I do not think anyone is putting an actual value on family but in the end, we all would have to put things in perspective to survive. Terrible decisions would need to be made. Someone would have to make them. To rationalize out loud in a thread like this makes some things a bit more clear. We all hope this will never take place but look around you. It is not a pretty picture. So many takers and fewer givers....JMHO

 

[CarmelHP]

These decisions have to be made all the time with limited time a resources, it's called "triage"- some can make it on their own, some can make it with some of your help, and some won't make it regardless of what you do.

 

[Westside]

All depends on their abilities. In a TRUE major SHTF Zombie apocalypse if they can't contribute to the group or provide for the future they gotta be left behind. It is not an easy call but it has to be that way. You can't afford to weaken an entire group to save grandma who can't walk without assistance or fend for herself.

 

[moischmoe]

Some of our grandparents lived through a SHTF situation in the 1930's. What did THEY do with THEIR grandparents?

Not a hypothetical question, I'm really curious.