High capacity magazines

[chris46131]

I SHALL NOT BE KILLED BY A MAN WITH DRY KNICKERS!

And when are we going to get THAT put on a t-shirt?

 

[printcraft]

Why do we not have a right to own a car? Do not tell me because it is not in the Constitution.

We have a right to everything we have worked for.

Who thinks cars are not on the list to restrict and ban?
Anybody ever hear of government mandated mileage ratings?

Want an incandescent light bulb? Sorry *******!

Can't have too much salt, no soda over 16 oz.

Nanny state mentality does not end.
It only devours and keeps on going.
It is insatiable.

 

[ZX-14R]

And when are we going to get THAT put on a t-shirt?

Thats a good idea! But what should we put on the back?

 

[Sylvain]

How can you guarantee that none of your vehicles would take a life? The only way to be sure is to destroy them.

You do not have a right to own a car. You do have a right to keep and bear arms. That right shall not be infringed which means no one should be able to decide how I keep and bear arms.

Why do we not have a right to own a car? Do not tell me because it is not in the Constitution.

We have a right to everything we have worked for.

We have the right to own cars.It's just not recognized by the constitution.

 

[ZX-14R]

Who thinks cars are not on the list to restrict and ban?
Anybody ever hear of government mandated mileage ratings?

Want an incandescent light bulb? Sorry *******!

Can't have too much salt, no soda over 16 oz.

Nanny state mentality does not end.
It only devours and keeps on going.
It is insatiable.

FTFY.

 

[Titanium Man]

We have the right to own cars.It's just not recognized by the constitution.

Who's to say after next four years we'll have a constitution?

Don't forget, 4 Supreme Court Justices are up for retirement.

Better hold on...........it's gonna be a bumpy ride.

 

[Bunnykid68]

Who thinks cars are not on the list to restrict and ban?
Anybody ever hear of government mandated mileage ratings?

Want an incandescent light bulb? Sorry *******!

Can't have too much salt, no soda over 16 oz.

Nanny state mentality does not end.
It only devours and keeps on going.
It is insatiable.

Tried to rep you but I am all whored out.

 

[Avec]

Page count is exploding, so I again apologize if I overlook some posts. If you want a response and I have missed it, please post it again.

For whoever linked the Massad Ayoob article - Good Read. Thank you. A single takeaway quote from that is this:
Americans have historically modeled their choices of home protection and personal defense handguns on what the cops carried. From that, I can be argued that if the Police need a high capacity magazine, then why not a non-enforcement citizen. That is good stuff. Thank you again.

Our rights are not derived from the Natural rights. They have their basis in the Word of God. Even the Atheists that helped write the constitution recognized the Bible as a document that held immense sway on their thinking. This country was founded on biblical principles and not on natural principles (which are subject to current trends and opinions) If you want to see what a government founded upon Natural law does look at France and the former Soviet Union. They fail miserably. Our is destined to fail the further we allow our rights to be subjected to current thinking and not on the biblical foundation upon which this country was founded.
By the way it is 50 quality posts! not just 50 posts.

Natural law and natural rights are directly linked. They cannot be decoupled for a specific argument. You now say our rights are NOT derived from natural rights, however it has been argued earlier in this thread that they were. You need to bring your argument to them on that point.

With regard to the biblical foundations of the country, you are also misinterpreting. The founders built into the Constitution and Declaration elements of St Thomas. Thomas Jefferson as good as quoted Aquinas in the Declaration. On the other side, they went to great lengths to separate the state and religion. Most founders, including Jefferson where not overly religious, with at least a dozen or more denominations represented in the history of the framers. Indicating the desire to keep religion out of the state (and the state out of religion)

To declare gun ownership is a God given right seems to bear no actual proof or historical precedent.

 

[Tinner666]

Here is an article on it. However, I concede that the point I was trying to make is not supported by this data. Gun related deaths will surpass auto accidents as the number one case of non-medical related deaths (cancer, for example will continue to be higher) My bad for the misinformation.

Gun deaths in America projected to soon top car fatalities - Americas - World - The Independent

I doubt it, unless some bans are imposed. More arms means more polite people and fewer bad guys to contend with. True, the death toll will rise for a short while as more bad guys get killed off and the streets become safer, but that's to be expected. After that, I project the deaths to decrease by 70%.

 

[Avec]

You do not have a right to own a car. You do have a right to keep and bear arms. That right shall not be infringed which means no one should be able to decide how I keep and bear arms.

Quite right. However, if your 30 round magazine is taken and you are just left with a 10, or a number of 10 and your weapon, are you still not able to bear that arm? I have not suggested banning any weapons whatsoever. In fact, I think I said it would have little impact on violence. If you are unable to purchase new high capacity magazines, how is that right being infringed?

Just offering a counter-argument.

 

[9mmfan]

OP, try this: Let me google that for you


Edit: or this. www.guncite.com/gc2ndfqu.html

 

[Bunnykid68]

Page count is exploding, so I again apologize if I overlook some posts. If you want a response and I have missed it, please post it again.

For whoever linked the Massad Ayoob article - Good Read. Thank you. A single takeaway quote from that is this:
Americans have historically modeled their choices of home protection and personal defense handguns on what the cops carried. From that, I can be argued that if the Police need a high capacity magazine, then why not a non-enforcement citizen. That is good stuff. Thank you again.



Natural law and natural rights are directly linked. They cannot be decoupled for a specific argument. You now say our rights are NOT derived from natural rights, however it has been argued earlier in this thread that they were. You need to bring your argument to them on that point.

With regard to the biblical foundations of the country, you are also misinterpreting. The founders built into the Constitution and Declaration elements of St Thomas. Thomas Jefferson as good as quoted Aquinas in the Declaration. On the other side, they went to great lengths to separate the state and religion. Most founders, including Jefferson where not overly religious, with at least a dozen or more denominations represented in the history of the framers. Indicating the desire to keep religion out of the state (and the state out of religion)

To declare gun ownership is a God given right seems to bear no actual proof or historical precedent.

You are right, they used the term our Creator I believe

 

[Bunnykid68]

Quite right. However, if your 30 round magazine is taken and you are just left with a 10, or a number of 10 and your weapon, are you still not able to bear that arm? I have not suggested banning any weapons whatsoever. In fact, I think I said it would have little impact on violence. If you are unable to purchase new high capacity magazines, how is that right being infringed?

Just offering a counter-argument.

I would say you are limiting my ability to defend myself as effectively as possible. The magazine is part of the arm.

 

[printcraft]

Quite right. However, if your 30 round magazine is taken and you are just left with a 10, or a number of 10 and your weapon, are you still not able to bear that arm? I have not suggested banning any weapons whatsoever. In fact, I think I said it would have little impact on violence. If you are unable to purchase new high capacity magazines, how is that right being infringed?

Just offering a counter-argument.

You have me convinced... Technically nobody needs more than one bullet.
You can still bear that arm.
Even the police do it.

 

[chezuki]

What is a "rep"?

Don't worry about it, you're not likely to encounter any...

 

[Sylvain]

Don't worry about it, you're not likely to encounter any...

It says "he's an unknown quantity at this point".

 

[worddoer]

The OP never did answer my posts #38 and #48.

Does he seriously want a 1 sentence answer to a problem that took generations to develop?

The problem is people are so ignorant now days about our country's founding and the basis of our freedoms. When we talk about this, we are basically teaching the founding principals. And that cannot be done in a sound bite.

To say that you want 1 sentence or a sound bite to win an discussion is the lazy way out. Why doesn't the OP do some studying and homework instead of cheating and looking for us to provide an answer. Then he would actually know why he believes what he believes. To only rely on others effort will never give you the conviction to stand your ground.

 

[infiremedic07]

no where does it say that religion was to be kept out of state...it clearly says:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peacebly to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievences.

This is a clear example of no state mandated religion and in no way implies a government void of religion.
your right, God does not specifically say you have a right to a gun but the right to self defense is clear in the bible.

dont want this to turn into a religious thread but... our country was founded on these principles.

 

[Avec]

OP, try this: Let me google that for you


Edit: or this. www.guncite.com/gc2ndfqu.html

Not advocating banning any gun, or high capacity magazines for that matter, so neither of these are applicable.

You are right, they used the term our Creator I believe

Not in the Constitution. No mention of God or Creator in the Constitution.

I would say you are limiting my ability to defend myself as effectively as possible. The magazine is part of the arm.

Constitution only says the right to bear arms, not the unfettered right to bear arms. On the other hand, it does not say right to bear reasonable arms.

Don't worry about it, you're not likely to encounter any...

Just wanted to know what I was missing.

 

[Bunnykid68]

It says "he's an unknown quantity at this point".

I never noticed that about the rep, thanks again my obnoxiously accented friend