Some people aren't getting the message:
YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS ON PRIVATE PROPERTY!!!
If you don't believe me try to sue a private non-business party for a rights infringment. It won't work. You can't sue me because I told you to shut up. You can't sue me because I didn't like you because of your religion or ethnicity. You can't sue me because I didn't invite you to a party at my house for one of the above reasons.
YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS ON PRIVATE PROPERTY!!!
If you want to be able to carry a gun on private property without the owner having any say in it then get someone to PASS A LAW! Just like it was done recently for the employer parking lot law that was enacted. Take the next step. Until then YOU HAVE NO "RIGHT" TO CARRY A GUN ON SOMEONE'S PRIVATE PROPERTY.
It won't be illegal if you do but it is still "wrong". I shouldn't have to tell you to leave. You should be mature enough to not push the issue & put it in someone's face.
IF I OC into a store that has a "no guns" sign then I should only expect trouble (which is why I CC there ). Who in their "reasonable" mind would think otherwise? Why would you OC into a store that is posted "no guns" EXCEPT to stir up trouble?
Since...
YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS ON PRIVATE PROPERTY!!!
...that could be the ONLY reasonable expected outcome of that action - hence the charges of doing it just to "cause trouble". If you do get a negative response in a situation like that YOU HAVE NO ONE TO BLAME BUT YOURSELF. If it doesn't happen that way then consider yourself lucky. If I CC & get found out I would accept that I did something "wrong". I would be a little sheepish (FTR, that's totally different than "sheeple") & completely accept the chewing I would rightly get from the owner.
If the place isn't posted then as soon as the owner lets you know their policy you are now back to it being a known "no guns" location. Either follow the owners wishes or leave.
DO THE RIGHT THING WITHOUT HAVING TO BE TOLD TO DO IT OR WITHOUT THERE NEEDING TO BE A LAW ABOUT IT!!
Why is that so hard to understand?
Isn't that what they taught you in the military, mk2ja?
I happen to disagree with those laws and in (my)perfect world, there would be no gray area. Private property owners would be just that and could maintain whatever standards they see fit. However, in the world in which we actually live, I would hazard a guess that this particular establishment and most if not all others are not strictly private property as they have most likely received either some type of tax deferral, loan or other such subsidy from the state(i.e., you and me). Therefore, they no longer fall under the guise of "private property" and have no claim to discriminate on any grounds.
There are no rights based on color, creed, etc. nor are they a code of conduct that we as a society have agreed upon. I don't recall agreeing to them at least (whether they be a good code or not is not the debate).
As has been said many times here and elsewhere, you don't have the right not to be offended or your dignity bespoiled.
As for the government being open to anyone, I don't believe you are that naive. The state has never been an entity that operates on fairness and openness. It is not restricted in any manner other than what it allows itself to be restricted.
Oh man. I spent all that time writing that post, even repping finity for his good posts, and then he went and ruined it with all the yelling.
PS - no military yet, still working on bloody paperwork to get in. And working out a lot.
What is so hard for you to understand, do you know if in fact that this is a corporate BWW, or a franchisee? If a franchisee, corporate crap don't mean , because they do not own the business.
So until it is determined which it is, rein it in.
Now what you do on you own PRIVATE property when they have to be invited on to be there is different than private property where in order for them to do business where they allow you to to be there.
Don't confuse the two, they fall under two totally different classes.
You walk into "Joe's buy it all here store" where the public IS invited in to do business and you slam someone about their religion or ethnicity, and you better have a real darn good lawyer.
Do it on your own private "Personal" property where the public is not invited and for all I'm concerned is you can run around naked and howl at the moon and pee on every tree.
The two are different.
Now, you assume that Mk2ja is the military, no sir he is not, but he will be joining the USMC, so you can't be taught something when you've not been there.
Sometimes you just have to speak up to really be heard.
OOPS.
I assumed wrongly because of a reference you made to a "military haircut".
If I invite the public onto my property for a free hot dog roast I can still slam away at their religion or ethnicity all day long without fear of being sued.
If I'm a private "members only" shopping club (ala Sam's Club) & I charge muslims more for their membership fees than I do other religions then I can be sued for discrimination (I think - that may be a bad example but you get the point).
Sorry, as I explained above I made a bad assumption.
OOPS.
However that's something that most parents teach their kids.
Are you saying bapak2ja is falling down on the job?
(PS. mk2ja, that is your dad right? or am I making another bad assumption & remembering incorrectly? If so I apologize pre-emptively)
(PPS. I'm also not saying that he is falling down on the job if he is your dad. I'm using it to make a point. No offense intended)
at which point the OP became argumentative.
It has been quite some time since I have been in a BW3, but I remember them being very dimly lit. I would question if anybody would even notice a gun. I have to wonder if anyone really complained to the manager. I can't imagine a sheeple actually seeing the OP's gun, complaining to the manager, and then being happy with it still being present but just covered. I would think it more likely that the manager used that as an excuse to ask the OP to cover it to prevent that situation from arising.If not why would he not insist that the OP leave to keep the other customers calm.
Your assumption is correct there: Bapak2ja is my own Pa. And he's a pretty darn good one, if I say so myself!
Question - what if you want to sell hot dogs - or, say, the child of an ignorant set of parents wants to have a lemonade stand - on your own property, right by the sidewalk. Is it permissible to refuse to sell to protected classes? The child doesn't want to sell to the lesbians down the street or maybe the Muslims next door or even their Mexican maid's young daughter. Private property. Discrimination legal?
Land of the free
Overall I'd rather live here than any place else - even with all the crap we have to put up with at times.
I've pretty much read everything in this post now, and even posted my opinion of BWW (they suck), but one thing has me kinda puzzled. I've seen these things pop up before on INGO, and I just can't wrap my mind around patronizing a business that doesn't want someone to carry guns on their property. Being anti gun is but ONE reason why I will never spend a dime at any BWW, and I'm sure others here have made the same decision with BWW, and other businesses. Why do an OC event there? Why put money in their pockets (assuming they will serve you), and in the big picture of things, who cares! Just go somewhere else. The private property thing has been hashed over in this thread already, it didn't take a manager of the anti gun Clarksville store asking me to cover my gun to make me say "I will never visit this crappy restaurant again", and there are MANY restaurants in Clarksville.
There is not going to be some widespread banning of guns in restaurants because BWW set the precedent, JUST DON'T GO THERE ANYMORE! EVER! I am not anti OC, I don't care how somebody carries, it just gets to me when everybody starts screaming "OC event"! If someone can have a discussion with the manager/owner of the business and actually reach an understanding, then that's great, that's better than great, and it has happened, I just don't see the point of spending money somewhere that doesn't want you there.
Is your BWW in Clarksville? They have a no gun sign, that would imply anti gun to me, that's the only one I've wasted my time going into, and I don't care about the others.I think I missed somewhere in 18 pages where it was proven that BW3 was anti-gun? Could you cite that for me? Like I said in my prior post, I've received nothing but positive experiences and conversations at my BW3, and I OC there very frequently.