Gr666mer Updates

[Expat]

Exactly. Just like the MAPs (minor attracted person) argue. It happens in nature so it is okay.
They are born that way. No amount of therapy can change their predilection. So we need to celebrate them for what they are.
I would also point out cannibalism happens in nature as well.
I am just glad we can all finally agree on something.

 

[Route 45]

Exactly. Just like the MAPs (minor attracted person) argue. It happens in nature so it is okay.
They are born that way. No amount of therapy can change their predilection. So we need to celebrate them for what they are.
I would also point out cannibalism happens in nature as well.
I am just glad we can all finally agree on something.

The fact that grown-ass adults can't differentiate between consenting adults, child molesters and cannibals is probably more of a concern than what such a person thinks is "oKaY."

 

[Expat]

The fact that grown-ass adults can't differentiate between consenting adults, child molesters and cannibals is probably more of a concern than what such a person thinks is "oKaY."

You people keep using the "well it happens in nature" as an argument, so maybe you need a better one.

 

[printcraft]

Exactly. Just like the MAPs (minor attracted person) argue. It happens in nature so it is okay.
They are born that way. No amount of therapy can change their predilection. So we need to celebrate them for what they are.
I would also point out cannibalism happens in nature as well.
I am just glad we can all finally agree on something.

I can't wait...

 

[jamil]

This is demonstrably false. Homosexual activity has been observed over and over in the animal kingdom. If the gene pool dictates whether a trait is passed on from generation to generation, I'd like someone to explain how birth defects keep occuring in the current generation. Shouldn't Down Syndrome have vanished centuries ago?

Exactly. Consider genetics that cause either males or females unable to participate in procreation. They can't pass on their genes. But, if it's genetic they got it somehow and yet their parents were able to procreate.

I agree that environmental factors and trauma can influence a developing child's sexuality, but I also believe that some people are indeed hard-wired incorrectly at birth. This is true in so many other areas of mental health, I don't see why the part of the brain that determines identity and sexuality would be spared.

Humans are really complicated. The genetic firmware (innate instincts) can be overridden.

 

[Expat]

I remember talk many years ago that some researchers, assuming homosexuality was essentially a birth defect, were seeking money to look for a cure. There was quite the hue and cry and the researchers seemed to disappear.

 

[jamil]

Exactly. Just like the MAPs (minor attracted person) argue. It happens in nature so it is okay.
They are born that way. No amount of therapy can change their predilection. So we need to celebrate them for what they are.
I would also point out cannibalism happens in nature as well.
I am just glad we can all finally agree on something.

Saying that it happening in nature does not makes it okay in humans. It's acknowledging that anomolies can happen in nature, and that includes in humans. It's human nature to protect the innocence of children. That's an innate instinct. It's why we all support wood chippers for groomers. We think violating the innocence of children is immoral.

Some people are broken. Maybe nature. Maybe Nurture. Maybe both. But for some reason, the kiddie diddlers don't have the innate instinct to not diddle kiddies. So even if that were 100% nature, it's still immoral. It doesn't change the way we instinctively feel about what they do. Even if the making of serial killers involved some broken genetic markers what they do is immoral, and if they were born that way does not excuse their actions.

 

[Expat]

Saying that it happening in nature does not makes it okay in humans.

I agree, but that is the argument I have heard for years about homosexuality. Just say you don’t see anything wrong with it.

 

[jamil]

I agree, but that is the argument I have heard for years about homosexuality. Just say you don’t see anything wrong with it.

It’s a bad argument to say grooming is okay because they were born that way. It’s also a bad argument to say homosexuality is 100% nurture when it’s found in nature. I don’t think R45 is making the former argument. He did recommend wood chippers for groomers.

 

[Route 45]

I agree, but that is the argument I have heard for years about homosexuality. Just say you don’t see anything wrong with it.

Nature or nurture matters not to me, if it’s not harming anyone else. If two consenting adults have a relationship that you don’t approve of, sounds like a personal problem to me.

It should be obvious after I endorsed woodchippers for chomos that I’m not using the nature argument as an excuse for these predators. Merely disagreeing with Ark’s assessment on the matter. Don’t read more into it than is there because of your own bias.

By the way, the use of “you people” (whoever the hell you think that is) sounds a lot like Kut’s “your ilk,” so congratulations on that achievement.

 

[BigRed]

This is true in so many other areas of mental health, I don't see why the part of the brain that determines identity and sexuality would be spared.

Indeed. Mental illness is a real thing.

 

[2tonic]

Someone please enlighten me, where "in nature" does exclusionary homosexual behavior exist.
We've all seen bucks in rut, or dogs, mount another male due to sheer horniness, but they quickly figure it out and withdraw to seek a suitable op-sex mate. I've never observed an animal that only seeks same sex partners for mating.

 

[Route 45]

Someone please enlighten me, where "in nature" does exclusionary homosexual behavior exist.
We've all seen bucks in rut, or dogs, mount another male due to sheer horniness, but they quickly figure it out and withdraw to seek a suitable op-sex mate. I've never observed an animal that only seeks same sex partners for mating.

New Science on Same-sex Behavior in Wildlife - The National Wildlife Federation Blog

Scientists have long known that animals engage in sexual behavior with individuals of the same sex.

blog.nwf.org

1,500 animal species practice homosexuality

Homosexuality is quite common in the animal kingdom, especially among herding animals. Many animals solve conflicts by practicing same gender sex.

www.news-medical.net

As many as eight percent of sheep are gay, according to scientists | The Irish Post

AROUND one in twelve sheep are gay – a situation which is causing headaches for farmers trying to...

www.irishpost.com

 

[buckwacker]

And if we're using the "it happens in nature" argument, we could rationalize the evil of pedophilia away as well. I'm mean, in nature, the process of procreation begins when a female is sexually mature enough to become pregnant. That happens in humans at around 12 years of age. Maybe the "it happens in nature" isn't a well thought out argument.

 

[buckwacker]

New Science on Same-sex Behavior in Wildlife - The National Wildlife Federation Blog

Scientists have long known that animals engage in sexual behavior with individuals of the same sex.

blog.nwf.org

1,500 animal species practice homosexuality

Homosexuality is quite common in the animal kingdom, especially among herding animals. Many animals solve conflicts by practicing same gender sex.

www.news-medical.net

As many as eight percent of sheep are gay, according to scientists | The Irish Post

AROUND one in twelve sheep are gay – a situation which is causing headaches for farmers trying to...

www.irishpost.com

The very first words in the first article are "In honor of pride month..." Sure, thats an unvarnished, completely scientific piece. That also didn't answer 2tonics question.

 

[Route 45]

The very first words in the first article are "In honor of pride month..." Sure, thats an unvarnished, completely scientific piece. That also didn't answer 2tonics question.

You sure did read those 3 articles fast. There are scientific observations in all 3, regardless of the pride month mention.

Go to a zoo and watch some Bonobos sometime if you really care that much.

Also, the 3rd article indeed answers the question.

 

[Route 45]

And if we're using the "it happens in nature" argument, we could rationalize the evil of pedophilia away as well. I'm mean, in nature, the process of procreation begins when a female is sexually mature enough to become pregnant. That happens in humans at around 12 years of age. Maybe the "it happens in nature" isn't a well thought out argument.

Nobody is using a nature vs nurture argument to justify pedophilia. Merely pointing out that homosexuality is very likely ingrained in some people, as we are all part of the animal kingdom. Homosexuality is not pedophilia, in case you were confused about the matter. Quite a few little girls being molested by filthy old men, does that make it better?

 

[buckwacker]

You sure did read those 3 articles fast. There are scientific observations in all 3, regardless of the pride month mention.

Go to a zoo and watch some Bonobos sometime if you really care that much.

When someone starts a supposed scientific article with those words, it's clear they are likely more interested in narratives than science. Did you read the all? Did any of those articles claim exclusively homosexual behavior in nature?

 

[Route 45]

Did any of those articles claim exclusively homosexual behavior in nature?

Uh...yes. Read about the rams. Third article.

 

[buckwacker]

You sure did read those 3 articles fast. There are scientific observations in all 3, regardless of the pride month mention.

Go to a zoo and watch some Bonobos sometime if you really care that much.

Also, the 3rd article indeed answers the question.

Can't open the third article.
There's an awful lot of loose definition of homosexuality in the two articles I could read. Again, it's narrative thinly disguised as science.