Four Minneapolis officers fired after death of black man part II

[IndyDave1776]

Chief is now testifying. The man is a liar. He claims that Chauvin is applying more than moderate pressure but also claims to have seen all of the video. The two statements are fundamentally incompatible.

 

[printcraft]

Chief is now testifying. The man is a liar. He claims that Chauvin is applying more than moderate pressure but also claims to have seen all of the video. The two statements are fundamentally incompatible.

Self preservation, he wants to keep the job after this is over.

 

[KittySlayer]

Chief is now testifying. The man is a liar.

I read on INGO that no one would lie (or dabble in the gray areas) while on the stand.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Self preservation, he wants to keep the job after this is over.

Indeed do.

I have enjoyed watching him squirm under cross-examination. It's obvious he is on a mission to see that Chauvin gets buried under the jail.

 

[Denny347]

I believe the training sergeant and a couple UoF experts are slated to testify either yet today or tomorrow.

For some reason I thought the State rested Friday. Maybe this Friday?

 

[Denny347]

I just read the State's doctor's testimony where he believed the heart stopped due to lack of O2 from positional Asphyxia. Then on cross admitted that the heart could have stopped from the drugs in the system.... https://www.forcescience.org/2019/01/new-study-more-evidence-against-the-myth-of-restraint-asphyxia/

 

[T.Lex]

For some reason I thought the State rested Friday. Maybe this Friday?

Yeah, I've heard that things are going faster than they thought (mostly because it seems like the defense is taking a light touch to most of the cross exam). So, I think the State may rest as soon as this coming Friday.

 

[T.Lex]

I just read the State's doctor's testimony where he believed the heart stopped due to lack of O2 from positional Asphyxia. Then on cross admitted that the heart could have stopped from the drugs in the system.... https://www.forcescience.org/2019/01/new-study-more-evidence-against-the-myth-of-restraint-asphyxia/

If this turns into a duel of experts, buy stock in plywood producers, 'cause that seems likely to lead to a defense verdict.

 

[nonobaddog]

If this turns into a duel of experts, buy stock in plywood producers, 'cause that seems likely to lead to a defense verdict.

Plus with the price of plywood these days - they better be making a healthy profit.

 

[T.Lex]

There's an INGOer who I'm nearly certain has significant experience dealing with expert witnesses. Even in my limited interaction with that particular scenario, a pretty compelling argument about reasonable doubt starts with something like, "Now, I'm not a doctor and based on the jury questionnaire, neither are any of you. But if the experts can't agree on what killed him, then that is enough for reasonable doubt."

Then it falls back to the old trope about better for 9 guilty men to go free than convict a single innocent man.

 

[nonobaddog]

Some background music...

 

[KG1]

There's an INGOer who I'm nearly certain has significant experience dealing with expert witnesses. Even in my limited interaction with that particular scenario, a pretty compelling argument about reasonable doubt starts with something like, "Now, I'm not a doctor and based on the jury questionnaire, neither are any of you. But if the experts can't agree on what killed him, then that is enough for reasonable doubt."

Then it falls back to the old trope about better for 9 guilty men to go free than convict a single innocent man.

Seems logical to me. But......

 

[Ark]

Seems logical to me. But......

Exactly. This is a USSR-style show trial, logic has left the building. Histrionics, emotion, crying on the stand, and the not-so-veiled threat of riot and retaliation are the order of the day. This is a show for the cameras.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Then it falls back to the old trope about better for 9 guilty men to go free than convict a single innocent man.

So you are more of a "kill them all and let God sort them out" person?

 

[Kutnupe14]

Chief is now testifying. The man is a liar. He claims that Chauvin is applying more than moderate pressure but also claims to have seen all of the video. The two statements are fundamentally incompatible.

You’ll have to explain this one, because it doesn’t seem to make sense.

 

[IndyDave1776]

You’ll have to explain this one, because it doesn’t seem to make sense.

Had he watched the videos and told the truth he would have to account for Floyd bobbing his head and neck up and down which requires Chauvin's application of force to be limited. If I saw it how in the universe did he not see it unless he willfully chose not to see it.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

You’ll have to explain this one, because it doesn’t seem to make sense.

Just a guess, but in the video, Floyd was clearly able to lift his head, so Chauvin couldn't have been applying that much pressure.

That, combined with the lack of any bruising suggests that there wasn't any significant force being applied to Floyd's neck.

Positional asphyxia? Maybe, but since Floyd was complaining about not being able to breathe before he was taken down leads one to believe that there was something else in play that was causing his distress.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Just a guess, but in the video, Floyd was clearly able to lift his head, so Chauvin couldn't have been applying that much pressure.

That, combined with the lack of any bruising suggests that there wasn't any significant force being applied to Floyd's neck.

Positional asphyxia? Maybe, but since Floyd was complaining about not being able to breathe before he was taken down leads one to believe that there was something else in play that was causing his distress.

I am with you here! Pulmonary edema caused by the drugs was in fact in play. As an experienced drug abuser Floyd KNEW this all while he was complaining about everything from his heart to genetal warts. His associate who kept lipping off from the peanut gallery KNEW this. Neither of the bothered telling the truth in the knowledge that Floyd had ingested copious quantities of drugs. Still this magically becomes Chauvin's fault.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Had he watched the videos and told the truth he would have to account for Floyd bobbing his head and neck up and down which requires Chauvin's application of force to be limited. If I saw it how in the universe did he not see it unless he willfully chose not to see it.

Just a guess, but in the video, Floyd was clearly able to lift his head, so Chauvin couldn't have been applying that much pressure.

That, combined with the lack of any bruising suggests that there wasn't any significant force being applied to Floyd's neck.

Positional asphyxia? Maybe, but since Floyd was complaining about not being able to breathe before he was taken down leads one to believe that there was something else in play that was causing his distress.

Ah ok. I understand. So, at least to me, there’s a couple ways to look at this, or interpret the Chief’s words.
First, a head/neck has two rotational points. It’s is completely possible to move one’s head while the neck is being pinned to the ground with weight.
Second, “moderate” means what? It’s undefined. If I say I lift a “moderate” amount of weight at the gym, the next guy might call that “negligible.” So unless there’s a standard we all understand, one can’t really come to an ultimate conclusion.
Lastly, Floyd was described a a “big guy” by Chauvin. What’s the point of restraining a guy with “moderate” pressure? If your intent is to keep a “big guy” immobilized, you’re going to use the amount of force you think is needed to keep him that way. Given a knee on the neck is considered pretty much anywhere as “deadly force,” due to the possibility of injury, it doesn’t make sense to employ what one would consider a moderate use of force.
The Chief doesn’t appear to be lying, and if he was, why didn’t Chauvin’s lawyer attempt to impeach him on that comment?

 

[Kutnupe14]

Just wondering aloud here, but Floyd’s autopsy stated his death as being a homicide. Then two other medical examiner’s commissioned by the Floyd family concurred with that original opinion. Are these opinions not relevant? I know that many think there’s some vast conspiracy at play, to “save people’s careers,” or “so that the riots don’t burn down the city.” I see these as **** poor arguments, that indicate an unwillingness to look at the facts being presented and testified to by professionals. Essentially disregarding everything because of the belief in said conspiracy, regardless of how relevant it may be.