Father finds man raping his son

[churchmouse]

Back in the dark ages when I was growing up, parents knew the parents of everyone I hung around with. They made it a point to do so without fail. If my parents did know the kids parents, well tough luck for me.

I do not see that with a lot of parents today....even with my own grandkids....lots of people seem to be too naïve or too self absorbed to take the effort. Age difference or not, you must without fail pay attention to what is going on in your kids lives.

Too many parents today are too concerned about being their kids "friend" instead of being the mentor they need.

Just like Doc mentioned, open the windows so you can hear what is transpiring. Don't just stick your head in the sand.

Or your face in the damn phone.

 

[RockofStrength]

Yeah you got that post in before I was done typing , now I see what your thinking .

However , I'd say your trying to compare apples and oranges . " In but not of " , oil and water and so on .

I'd also say that my post still holds true even with the crowd your talking about , to a much lesser degree .

Why do I say that ? Experience in both worlds .

Preachers daughters have reputations , church girls still get pregnant out of wedlock , Catholic alter boys still get *** well you get the point .

I've seen kids / young adults ( in that world ) that were way more mature than their peers AND I've seen the opposite .

Remember , " the devil roams the earth as a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour " .

I still contend that if an older male chooses to spend much of his time with a younger one , there's something wrong there .

It isn't normal under anyone's laws .

Most of the 6,000+ years of recorded human history say you're wrong, with notable exceptions. Except in situations where ages are artificially separated, people tend to associate freely as they are able. Older young men (the idea of a teenager being a modern invention, you were either man or child for most of history) were typically mentored by the old men and mentors to the very young, particularly younger siblings. Seeking after a wife at a very young age (13-14 often being the point where marriage with consummation was permitted) was hardly uncommon both out of a desire for family (and sex of course) and also a helper to assist them in starting a household. They also took on responsibility much sooner, since keeping a manbaby around until the age of 18 or so would have been onerous to the point of disownership for most families.

To say that the father should have paid closer attention goes without saying, since his son is 11 and probably raised according to the modern standard. To say that another boy raised to the modern standard hanging around him is creepy is also not unreasonable. To say that any older male hanging around a younger male is simply unnatural or indicative of sexual deviancy is ridiculous. It depends on how the man was raised, not his age relative to the child in question.

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

Most of the 6,000+ years of recorded human history say you're wrong, with notable exceptions. Except in situations where ages are artificially separated, people tend to associate freely as they are able. Older young men (the idea of a teenager being a modern invention, you were either man or child for most of history) were typically mentored by the old men and mentors to the very young, particularly younger siblings. Seeking after a wife at a very young age (13-14 often being the point where marriage with consummation was permitted) was hardly uncommon both out of a desire for family (and sex of course) and also a helper to assist them in starting a household. They also took on responsibility much sooner, since keeping a manbaby around until the age of 18 or so would have been onerous to the point of disownership for most families.

To say that the father should have paid closer attention goes without saying, since his son is 11 and probably raised according to the modern standard. To say that another boy raised to the modern standard hanging around him is creepy is also not unreasonable. To say that any older male hanging around a younger male is simply unnatural or indicative of sexual deviancy is ridiculous. It depends on how the man was raised, not his age relative to the child in question.

IMO , your history lesson is completely irrelevant because of two points ;

1 : Nobody in this thread was discussing adolescent male rearing throughout recorded history .

At the most we're discussing the last thirty years of adolescent male development , at the most .

2 : Context of the above in blue .

I used the words " chooses to spend much of his time " very specifically . As in they are a clue .

If you have an " adult " male that chooses to spend much of his time with younger males that ARE NOT his kids , siblings or relatives , you have a problem brewing .

 

[Snapdragon]

IMO , your history lesson is completely irrelevant because of two points ;

1 : Nobody in this thread was discussing adolescent male rearing throughout recorded history .

At the most we're discussing the last thirty years of adolescent male development , at the most .

2 : Context of the above in blue .

I used the words " chooses to spend much of his time " very specifically . As in they are a clue .

If you have an " adult " male that chooses to spend much of his time with younger males that ARE NOT his kids , siblings or relatives , you have a problem brewing .

Generalizations are generalizations because they are sometimes true, not because they are always true.

 

[kludge]

Then again this is also the reason none of my children will ever participate in boy or girl scouts.

Why not volunteer as an one of the adult leaders in your son's troop? That's what I do. I've been a cub/boy scout leader in some capacity for over 13 years. I have two sons who are Life rank and one who just started cubs. It's a great program and a great way for parents to get out and do stuff with their boys in an environment where they can be boys, and learn how to be men. Too many parents want to treat scouts like another form of daycare or babysitting so they can have "me time". There's a place for that, but most of the time, we'd all be better off if most of that "me time" was spent with our kids.

I hate to say it but when it comes to this kind of stuff, being in scouts or not in scouts isn't going to affect the odds one bit. People spend way too much time focusing on strangers - yes, there are those horrible cases that get all the media attention, but (and I don't know the statistics) most often it's a family member/relative or someone who is close to the child in another way -- so get involved and make sure everyone plays by the rules... just like gun safety rules.

 

[Darral27]

Why not volunteer as an one of the adult leaders in your son's troop? That's what I do. I've been a cub/boy scout leader in some capacity for over 13 years. I have two sons who are Life rank and one who just started cubs. It's a great program and a great way for parents to get out and do stuff with their boys in an environment where they can be boys, and learn how to be men. Too many parents want to treat scouts like another form of daycare or babysitting so they can have "me time". There's a place for that, but most of the time, we'd all be better off if most of that "me time" was spent with our kids.

I hate to say it but when it comes to this kind of stuff, being in scouts or not in scouts isn't going to affect the odds one bit. People spend way too much time focusing on strangers - yes, there are those horrible cases that get all the media attention, but (and I don't know the statistics) most often it's a family member/relative or someone who is close to the child in another way -- so get involved and make sure everyone plays by the rules... just like gun safety rules.

Had a bad experience with a church sponsored scout group when I was about 10. Nothing happened to me but I was questioned by detectives about my scout leader. I never heard about what happened or the outcome of the situation but never went back and will never send my children.
I am not saying this is the norm in scouts, just saying my opinions are formed by my past experiences and boyscouts was not a good one.

 

[STEEL CORE]

His lips going to be swollen in Prison too, remind me to send him a case of Vaseline and Chapstick, what go's around comes around!

 

[BuddieReigns]

They should at least be clipped. The repeat % on these A$$ hats is seriously high and that is only the ones that get caught.

I believe they should be killed as well, but if we aren't going to get rid of them for some stupid reason, I believe we should start either cutting off the tips of their noses or facial branding. That way everyone will know.

 

[IndyDave1776]

I believe they should be killed as well, but if we aren't going to get rid of them for some stupid reason, I believe we should start either cutting off the tips of their noses or facial branding. That way everyone will know.

Although I tend to believe that liquidation is the correct answer for the guilty, the reservation I have is that this is a crime which is too lightly punished, but in my observation, accusation generally equals guilt in court.

 

[hoosierdoc]

Anyone else notice the 18yo assailant is a "fully grown man" here but most stories an 18yo is a child?

 

[churchmouse]

Anyone else notice the 18yo assailant is a "fully grown man" here but most stories an 18yo is a child?

Yes. If he was robbing/shooting.

 

[Snapdragon]

This was a relationship that evolved over the course of three years-- probably a very complicated relationship of play, sex, friendship, and maybe even love that was allowed to develop into something unhealthy. Abusive relationships involve a lot more emotions and feelings than just hurting or being hurt. The thing that nobody talks about is that many victims of sexual abuse don't just feel pain and hurt. They also sometimes feel pleasure, and then the tremendous guilt that comes with feeling the pleasure.

The 11-year-old was probably not happy when daddy beat the **** out of his friend. He was probably hurt, angry, relieved, and a thousand emotions all at once, but the main thing that his dad probably did in his eyes was confirm that what may have been going on for three years was wrong and he should feel guilty. Will he be able to function later in life? With therapy, probably. Without therapy, good chance also. It happens more than you think to people you would never suspect.

Should Frolander be punished? Of course, but I'm not convinced that this was some one-time random violent rape. I think it may have been an extension of the perverse and unhealthy relationship that had been allowed to develop between the two boys because they were unsupervised. Does this mean that all relationships between children of widely differing ages are wrong? Of course not. It just means that a parent has the responsibility to be aware of what is going on with his child.

It's not as black and white as it seems, and there are no easy solutions.

 

[jgreiner]

I am far less tolerant than this dad. I would have ventilated him.

 

[hoosierdoc]

I am far less tolerant than this dad. I would have ventilated him.

And then you could with a clean conscience tell the judge and jury you had to use lethal force to separate him from your 11yo and stop the "forcible felony"? The story indicates it was stopped the moment the father entered the room. Lethal force would have been wholly inappropriate from a legal standpoint. I know the "I wouldn't convict" comments that will follow this, but it's the truth.

You don't get to use lethal force as retribution after the forcible felony has occurred. Only to stop it (based on my understanding)

 

[BuddieReigns]

And then you could with a clean conscience tell the judge and jury you had to use lethal force to separate him from your 11yo and stop the "forcible felony"? The story indicates it was stopped the moment the father entered the room. Lethal force would have been wholly inappropriate from a legal standpoint. I know the "I wouldn't convict" comments that will follow this, but it's the truth.

You don't get to use lethal force as retribution after the forcible felony has occurred. Only to stop it (based on my understanding)

I don't know if his answer had much to do with legalities. I think it's more of a what he feels should be done statement. When I was a boy my grampa taught me that I could really do anything I wanted, but I would have to face the consequences. If you don't care about the consequences and feel it needs done, the laws mean nothing. I'm not saying whether or not it would be the right thing to do, but I couldn't blame him in that situation.

 

[ModernGunner]

A black eye or two, a fat lip (well, fat lips, I guess), and that's now considered 'beating to a pulp'? Not by a l-o-n-g shot. That's what we get in Obama's 'wussification world'. "Oooo, he's got bruises, he's been 'viciously' attacked!"

If the boy's Father had missed those 'clues' for 3 years, this 'good ol' Dad' is virtually as guilty as the scumbag.

That is NOT condoning what the perp did. This is stating, emphatically, that at least part of the blame lies squarely on the shoulders of the Dad / parents.

Not knowing where one's adolescent children are, and are doing, should be unacceptable in today's world. 8 years old and the Dad doesn't know what's going on with his son? All that "Oh, but 30 - 40 years ago when I was a kid, blah, blah, blah..." doesn't cut it any more. It's 2014, not 1974.

The scumbag will be (and has been) held to account for his actions. Now, will the complicity (or stupidity) of the Dad / parents be held to account, as well? I'll bet not, and I'll bet LOTS of people will be wrongly sympathetic with Dad.

Feelings should be reserved solely for the little boy.

 

[hoosierdoc]

Just pointing out that while we claim to be Internet cowboys there's still the actual rule of law at least for a few more years.

 

[Amishman44]

Seems strange that a 18 year old would want to hang out with an 11 year old, should have thrown some red flags to the father in the first place. Sad this went on for 3 years before it was caught. I will say the father showed a lot of self control not killing this sick bastard. Not sure I could show that kind of restraint after seeing something like that.

Yup...father showed great restraint! I'd say he had every right to (literally) kick this punk's @ss...and twice on Sunday! I'll be that's a beating that punk'll never forget!

 

[IndyDave1776]

Yup...father showed great restraint! I'd say he had every right to (literally) kick this punk's @ss...and twice on Sunday! I'll be that's a beating that punk'll never forget!

So Amishman would, in the words of the Weird Al parody, 'get medieval on his hiney'?

 

[hoosierdoc]

Wrong thread post