Does "Bugging-Out" make any sense?

[nate1865]

Unless you are fleeing something (hordes of zombies, tsunami, earthquake zone) you are better off in more populated areas where other people and relationships exist to help you out.

"Bugging out" only isolates you and takes you away from where resources will be, making you weaker in a lot of circumstances. Plus, who wants to be a loner with a big pile of stuff they are just sitting on? That guy is gonna get targeted.

Better to be well-connected and part of a larger community.

There's a reason cities have always been citadels and places of safety.

 

[E5RANGER375]

if my butt itches, im gonna scratch it. if my house is on fire, im gonna get the **** out. if a mob of angry inner city peoples is coming down my street looking for food, im already gonna be gone. I actually believe in holding out in the city longer than most people DEPENDING on what event has occurred. If a ANY explosion happens downtown, me and mine will be GONE y'all, just incase its a dirty bomb. we arent waiting to find out. we will be goin the way the wind aint. cause by the time the found out what it had in it, it would be too late and they'd be sayin, please remain calm and lock yourselves in doors and seal all doors and windows ..... and turn off your AC. **** that. I'll be driving in my car with AC on ahead of all the slow mofos that twiddled their thumbs. action plans people! you got'em?

we can be gone in 5 minutes fully loaded. and thats with a 4 year old and a WIFE! and i already know which ways to go and have backups and contingency plans. and if im wrong? well I will just turn around and come back! WOW see how that works? you CAN come back if your wrong and all you have wasted is a little time and gas. better safe than worm food. theres no self destruct button on my house. it will be there when i come back

 

[Keith_Indy]

hmmm... self destruct button. Might have to investigate that for certain things.

Contingency - Plans

There's a reason cities have always been citadels and places of safety.

That was in days of yore when cities weren't the refuge of scoundrels and the poor. Everyone in a citadel and the town around it, had a job. In every situation they had a function to play.

Everyone locked in the citadel because the barbarians are razing the town... This group takes care of kids. This group organizes fire brigade. This group see's to internal security. These young guys on the wall, and in reserve. You fast kids, runners to maintain communication.

You really see Indy becoming that?

There's a reason citadels have walls, and it was rare that cities and towns had walls. You had to have a middle-class/rich population to maintain a standing army & walls. Castle/Citadel was the economic choice to protect the "lands" wealth. Your surplus food, water, liquor, and arms would all be stored in here. Another option to look at are forts, which can guard the approaches to a city/town.

Feudal/Frontier Society 101

 

[WETSU]

Here is my take on this. I have been doing this survival/prepping thing for a long time. 25+ years. I've pretty much heard all the arguments for or against bugging out, not bugging out and why, ie what defines SHTF.

Most of the posters on this thread have been thoughtful and ernst in their replies. One mans' SHTF may not rise to another man's definition. Thats cool. Both are prepared. I prepare for the worst that HUMANKIND can dish out. Period. I don't worry much about mother nature. I can deal with her. Its people, organized people that will cause me problems. Either in gangs of 8 or organized into a ruling government complete with paramilitary units.

I walk the warrior path every single day. I train hard, study, shoot, work out, fight empty hand, take professional classes, prep, teach others etc. Every single day. Not part time. Not sorta prepared. Not sorta serious, when NASCAR isn't on. All the time.
I train for the worst. Anything less for me is dishonorable. I am not looking down on others, and what they say is good enough. But there level is not good enough for me.

Now for the common thread. I have seen this for 25 years.

"I don't need to bug out-why would I need to do that? I have all my prep here."

This more often than not, comes from the lazy , weak, undisciplined or obese/medicated/myopic people. People with limitations, real or self imposed. I mean, it happens so often it is a noticeable trend. The thought of them having to strap on a ruck, and hit the road/terrain is a nightmare for them and they know it. So they figure out all sorts of mental gymnastics to argue out of that. They call themselves prepared but have chosen to not prepare for events that in the past 100 years have killed tens of millions of people in the world.

Thats pretty much it. More later. I am late for a ruck march with Gamez...

 

[shibumiseeker]

Here is my take on this. I have been doing this survival/prepping thing for a long time. 25+ years. I've pretty much heard all the arguments for or against bugging out, not bugging out and why, ie what defines SHTF.

Most of the posters on this thread have been thoughtful and ernst in their replies. One mans' SHTF may not rise to another man's definition. Thats cool. Both are prepared. I prepare for the worst that HUMANKIND can dish out. Period. I don't worry much about mother nature. I can deal with her. Its people, organized people that will cause me problems. Either in gangs of 8 or organized into a ruling government complete with paramilitary units.

I walk the warrior path every single day. I train hard, study, shoot, work out, fight empty hand, take professional classes, prep, teach others etc. Every single day. Not part time. Not sorta prepared. Not sorta serious, when NASCAR isn't on. All the time.
I train for the worst. Anything less for me is dishonorable. I am not looking down on others, and what they say is good enough. But there level is not good enough for me.

Now for the common thread. I have seen this for 25 years.

"I don't need to bug out-why would I need to do that? I have all my prep here."

This more often than not, comes from the lazy , weak, undisciplined or obese/medicated/myopic people. People with limitations, real or self imposed. I mean, it happens so often it is a noticeable trend. The thought of them having to strap on a ruck, and hit the road/terrain is a nightmare for them and they know it. So they figure out all sorts of mental gymnastics to argue out of that. They call themselves prepared but have chosen to not prepare for events that in the past 100 years have killed tens of millions of people in the world.

Thats pretty much it. More later. I am late for a ruck march with Gamez...

Quoted for being the best post in this thread. I can't say that I train to the same degree as Wetsu, but my feelings on this are pretty similar.

 

[E5RANGER375]

Now for the common thread. I have seen this for 25 years.

"I don't need to bug out-why would I need to do that? I have all my prep here."

This more often than not, comes from the lazy , weak, undisciplined or obese/medicated/myopic people. People with limitations, real or self imposed. I mean, it happens so often it is a noticeable trend. The thought of them having to strap on a ruck, and hit the road/terrain is a nightmare for them and they know it. So they figure out all sorts of mental gymnastics to argue out of that. They call themselves prepared but have chosen to not prepare for events that in the past 100 years have killed tens of millions of people in the world.

Thats pretty much it. More later. I am late for a ruck march with Gamez...

Thats the best description of about 60% of the preppers I have seen or heard. WOW, you hit it on the head man!!! This post is epic!

 

[snapping turtle]

When I was single and had no responsibilities I was prepared to bug out at anytime. Heck I don't think many people would even have missed me. AT times I have lived in Indy in what would most likely be described as the worst parts of town (forgive me if I might be calling out your neighborhood). 30th and Carrolton, 40th and broadway, 53 and high school road and 38th and post. Not real friendly terratory.

It was more of a on the run mindset. Never worried about zombies, gangs or Dirty nukes. Just the boyfriend/husband of the girl at the bar I did not know well or the random case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time stuff.

I now have a "shotgun, a rifle and a four wheel drive, "and a couple off fall back locations with some supplies and good friends to run with. Plus it will take some time to reach me from the cities when the zombies break loose. I cannot be ready to fall back from current location for approx 4 hours but could be on the way leaving most essential preps in a hour tops.

 

[eldirector]

I've noticed another trend in this thread. Nate1865 finally spelled it out for me. Many folks seem to equate "bugging out" with being a loner. Running off to hide in the woods all alone for the rest of your life.

How many folks, who actually HAVE bug-out plans, are really planning to go it alone? ALL of my contingencies include family and friends. Either getting to someone's home/property where WE ALL can make a go of it, or meeting up with folks. Too many reasons NOT to stick with a group that you know and trust (safety in numbers, pooled resources, broader skillset, etc...).

Lastly, how many folks have read "Lights Out"? While this is fiction, it does a decent job of illustrating why BOTH bugging OUT (running off to your BOL) and bugging IN (locking the doors and shooting anyone who comes knocking) aren't necessarily the best choices. Keith_Indy (and others) have made some good arguments for a strong community (or MSG as this board calls 'em) to face the situation TOGETHER.

Oh, and +1 Wetsu for summarizing this whole thread!

 

[E5RANGER375]

I agree with the "community" approach, but I will only be part of a community that I have already met and established a relationship with pre-SHTF. like what Keith_indy is referring to. I wont just be walking down to my local city hall and volunteering my services or supplies for the sake of the "community" which will be partly made up of dumb asses who will and have always rode the backs of others and EXPECT it. screw that. I would rather put a bullet in their dome than let them have any of my stuff.

 

[shibumiseeker]

How many folks, who actually HAVE bug-out plans, are really planning to go it alone? ALL of my contingencies include family and friends. Either getting to someone's home/property where WE ALL can make a go of it, or meeting up with folks. Too many reasons NOT to stick with a group that you know and trust (safety in numbers, pooled resources, broader skillset, etc...).

Like Wetsu, I started "prepping" back when it was called survivalism. Survivalists became associated with the extreme right wing militia crowd and the term fell out of favor until about a decade ago when "prepping" came into vogue.

I can clearly remember the day I started thinking about survivalism. It was 1981 and I was waiting for the school bus with my friends. I started designing the house I eventually wanted to build and the skills I might need. I was 11 at the time. Throughout high school I studied how to survive in the woods, even doing an independent study class on the subject for a year, learning what it took to be self sufficient both out in nature, and at home. I was obsessed. Then at 19 I bought my property and settled in to build the place (not just the house, but the place) that I wanted to be self sufficient in. I learned how to live in the woods, the desert, the arctic landscape. I learned as many skills as I could to be able to take care of any problem I could with the resources I might have at hand at any time.

Even today with a family, we are all on board with it, and while the girls aren't as skilled as I am, they have a higher degree of self-reliance than most and have some skills that complement. And yes, we do have both bug-in and bug-out plans. The bug out plans are scaled from "we load as much as we can into the vehicles and head for one of several meeting spots" to "we grab the hiking packs which are kept packed and ready to go and disappear into the woods heading for one of several locations we have identified well in advance and know intimately. And our plans aren't just for social collapse or disaster, we have plans for more likely things like loss of jobs or major medical issues. And we are fatalistic enough to know that no matter what you do, sometimes **** just happens.

 

[Sailor]

Here is my take on this. I have been doing this survival/prepping thing for a long time. 25+ years. I've pretty much heard all the arguments for or against bugging out, not bugging out and why, ie what defines SHTF.

Most of the posters on this thread have been thoughtful and ernst in their replies. One mans' SHTF may not rise to another man's definition. Thats cool. Both are prepared. I prepare for the worst that HUMANKIND can dish out. Period. I don't worry much about mother nature. I can deal with her. Its people, organized people that will cause me problems. Either in gangs of 8 or organized into a ruling government complete with paramilitary units.

I walk the warrior path every single day. I train hard, study, shoot, work out, fight empty hand, take professional classes, prep, teach others etc. Every single day. Not part time. Not sorta prepared. Not sorta serious, when NASCAR isn't on. All the time.
I train for the worst. Anything less for me is dishonorable. I am not looking down on others, and what they say is good enough. But there level is not good enough for me.

Now for the common thread. I have seen this for 25 years.

"I don't need to bug out-why would I need to do that? I have all my prep here."

This more often than not, comes from the lazy , weak, undisciplined or obese/medicated/myopic people. People with limitations, real or self imposed. I mean, it happens so often it is a noticeable trend. The thought of them having to strap on a ruck, and hit the road/terrain is a nightmare for them and they know it. So they figure out all sorts of mental gymnastics to argue out of that. They call themselves prepared but have chosen to not prepare for events that in the past 100 years have killed tens of millions of people in the world.

Thats pretty much it. More later. I am late for a ruck march with Gamez...

Excellent reply. WETSU walks the walk and others around him follow. Proud to be one of them.

 

[irishfan]

There are a lot of things to prepare yourself for and a lot of things you can buy or build to help you along the way. However, I am a firm believer that without the correct mindset you will fail in the end.

 

[Yeah]

I prepare for the worst that HUMANKIND can dish out.

What do you consider the worst that humankind can dish out, and how do you prepare for it?

I ask because I'm going to spend a month or so back home this summer and I'd like to 'be prepared'.

 

[E5RANGER375]

id consider that a total breakdown of rule of law. a society that acts like animals. look at other countries who have went through a collapse. that will give you an idea. if it all falls apart, you will see things that you only though happened in africa or asia etc..

 

[ThrottleJockey]

Natural disaster...? How about an example of a disaster where you would just run away? How about a global example where anyone did? New Orleans? Maybe, but a lot of variables. People don't flee from tornadoes and earthquakes...

Civil unrest? What does that mean? You would runa and hide from domestic invaders? Historically, when has that ever happened? The British stayed in London during the Blitzkrieg, likewise the Germans during the Allied bombing campaign. Korean store-owners mounted their stores with SKSs and defended their property. What civil unrest would lead you to leave--seems safer to stay home and defend your family. Will there be no civil unrest along the roads?

So how many "jews" hung around and waited? Now how many grabbed all the gold they could carry and bugged out?

 

[WETSU]

QUOTE:

"What do you consider the worst that humankind can dish out, and how do you prepare for it?"

Well considering Americans will trample a man to death over a $59 DVD player the day after Thanksgiving, I have no illusions as to how low groups of people will go.

I think a low boil is simmering underneath a thing veneer of pop culture, amusment, fast food, booze/drugs, etc that keeps people distracted. I think we are a people divided in this country-by design. Left to our own devices we probably would get along better. But there is an ongoing battle between the haves and have-nots, blacks vs white, hispanics vs everyone, educated vs less so, urban vs rural, producers vs lazy, religious vs nonobservant etc etc . Balkanization.

And thats what worries me. Groups of people fracturing into tribes if you will, people with common interests and the means or will to impose their view on others.

I will probably not be in a lot of those groups, so I may be a marked man. Or, the star bellied sneeches might be fighting with the non starred sneeches. And my famiit is in the middle told to pick sides. Leave me the hell alone.

So, I am a fighter. I train myself to fight, to live. I train to get my family out. I use history as a teacher. Albania, Nazi Germany & the holocaust, Cuba, Cambodia, China, Rawanda, Yugoslavia etc etc.

If a group of men can brutalize my people. I can be much, much more brutal. Thats what I train for.

I heard someone once say "I train for the well motivated sociopath". Well, I train for a squad of well motivated, trained sociopaths.

I train by pretty much not igoring anything. Nothing is off the table. I train for the worst and hope for the best. If I am wrong. Awesome. May I die in peace in my bed at age 90. The secondary benefit is that by living my life as a warrior, in the American patriot tradition, I live an example to my children and their children. I walk the walk. If no one does that, who will pick up the rifle when the call goes out? Who will heed that call in 40 years? Our kids who grew up with "everyone's a winner" trophys and heavy doses of X box and ritalin?

Someone has to prepare daily and walk the walk. Live by example. So thats what I do. Its all I can do as one man.

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

QUOTE:Well considering Americans will trample a man to death over a $59 DVD player the day after Thanksgiving, I have no illusions as to how low groups of people will go.

I think a low boil is simmering underneath a thing veneer of pop culture, amusment, fast food, booze/drugs, etc that keeps people distracted. I think we are a people divided in this country-by design. Left to our own devices we probably would get along better. But there is an ongoing battle between the haves and have-nots, blacks vs white, hispanics vs everyone, educated vs less so, urban vs rural, producers vs lazy, religious vs nonobservant etc etc . Balkanization.

This ^ is what IMO , most folks don't see or understand . Now couple this with the fact that WAY too many folks think a gun is the answer to their problems .

 

[irishfan]

QUOTE:

I heard someone once say "I train for the well motivated sociopath". Well, I train for a squad of well motivated, trained sociopaths.

I train by pretty much not igoring anything. Nothing is off the table. I train for the worst and hope for the best. If I am wrong. Awesome. May I die in peace in my bed at age 90. The secondary benefit is that by living my life as a warrior, in the American patriot tradition, I live an example to my children and their children. I walk the walk. If no one does that, who will pick up the rifle when the call goes out? Who will heed that call in 40 years? Our kids who grew up with "everyone's a winner" trophys and heavy doses of X box and ritalin?

Someone has to prepare daily and walk the walk. Live by example. So thats what I do. Its all I can do as one man.

This ^ is what IMO , most folks don't see or understand . Now couple this with the fact that WAY too many folks think a gun is the answer to their problems .

To many people think having a gun makes them a tough guy and will protect them all the time. The thing between your ears is the best tool to survive what life throws at you.

 

[308jake]

I'll be on the hunt for poon and follow where it leads.

 

[Leadeye]

I'm too old and out of shape to move a lot so I'll take my chances staying where I am. Have to depend on a lot of short range firepower.