Do you carry with a round chambered?

[SavageEagle]

LOL That's different, keeping them locked up. I seem to recall a post, or a couple posts, of people talking about their kids not being allowed in their rooms. I think one even said something about having an unlocked gun in the house. THat's why I said that.

Hell when I was growing up in So. In. My dad left his guns unlocked in his room. But I knew if he caught me in there touching them I'd get the hell beat outta me from here to hell and back. That didn't stop me from fondling his SKS at 13. But then again, against my mom's wishes, I had my own air rifle (Pumpmaster 760) that I routinely shot in my own yard.

USMC, I think one day soon I might just take you up on that offer. It'd be nice to have a place to practice and someone to show me the right way of doing things.

Also, as I stated in my first post on this thread, I've been playing with the idea of carrying with a round in the chamber. I guess I'm not confident in my own abilities yet. It's not my gun handling, just my lack of experiance.

 

[dburkhead]

I let my boy (9) see my guns anytime he ask. We go to the safe and I make him get the one out he wants to see. He inspects and makes safe before giving it to me to do the same.

My daughter is allowed to see and/or handle (not "play with") my guns whenever she wants if she asks. My approach is to take the gun myself, clear it, and then hand it to her--partly because she hasn't got the hand strength to clear them herself.

Take the mystery out of guns, make them "legitimately" available, and use that time to teach safe gun handling and you both remove the incentive to sneak around behind your back and make them more likely to handle them safely if, for whatever, reason (like, say, humans being fallible beings and the best of us will occassionally make mistakes), ones security arrangements fail.

That said, my guns, when not under my direct control, are always kept unloaded and locked up, cased with a trigger lock at the minimum.

 

[USMC_0311]

My approach is to take the gun myself, clear it, and then hand it to her--partly because she hasn't got the hand strength to clear them herself.

I started out the same way, as he became more fimilar and stronger I let him clear them. I want it to become habit forming. Pull gun from safe, clear and make safe automatically. I supervise but I want him to do it with out me reminding him. Sorry for the thread jack.

Savage Eagle did I miss it? What do you carry? and holster?

 

[rhino]

DO NOT PUT A TRIGGER LOCK ON A LOADED GUN!

Trigger locks are for guns that are unloaded and need to be secured. When you put the trigger lock in the gun, you are putting something into the trigger guard which can press the trigger just as easily as your finger can. When you need to secure the gun, drop the magazine, unload the chamber, and verify that it's inloaded visually and with your finger. Then you can lock it up or use a trigger lock.

If you're concerned about bullet setback, DON'T USE THE SAME ROUND EVERY TIME YOU LOAD THE GUN. When I unload a carry gun, the round that was in the chamber goes into a box to be used at the range. I do not use it again. And I hope no one whines about how expensive carry ammo is. Get over it. It's one round. Use them for practice and you'll be farther ahead in skill than you are behind financially.

Ya know, after much brow-beating that SavageEagle and I have had to take, I thought about it again, and realized it is just me being too lazy to walk upstairs and lock the Glock in the safe that makes me feel like carrying without one in the chamber. My solution: put some sort of trigger lock on it that would prevent one of the kiddies (or anyone else) from being able to pull the trigger back while the Glock is downstairs and off my person. I always keep guns out of reach of the toddler (unless she is helping daddy clean a rifle), but still prefer redundant safeties, and a trigger lock on the handgun while it is downstairs and off my person would soothe my fear (plus the teenager doing something stupid and impulsive is my main worry). I have a MasterLock trigger lock (keyed version) but have not tried it yet (it is upstairs on top of the gun safe!).
So, any advise on a solid trigger lock that would prevent a Glock trigger from being pulled rearward enough to activate the firing pin? I

 

[rhino]

Okay . . . several guys have done a great job of discussing reasons why your gun should be loaded when you carry it (loaded means chamber loaded, by the way). The issues of time, minimizing necessary manipulations, etc. are well known and anyone who isn't listening will just have to accept the consequences of their own actions.

There is, however, another point to be made here. I do not believe in the concept of "conditional" gun handling. Guns have to be treated the same way whether you believe they are loaded or unloaded. To assert that you carry an unloaded gun for some kind of "safety" reasons demonstrates that you believe in conditional gun handling. That line of thinking leads ultimately to negligent disharges and potential tragedy.

If you obey the four basic rules of safe gun handling, you can carry (and use) a loaded gun without problems. If you can't, then you're not ready to carry gun, regardless of its level of readiness.

 

[dburkhead]

To assert that you carry an unloaded gun for some kind of "safety" reasons demonstrates that you believe in conditional gun handling.

I'm going to have to disagree with you here, Rhino. One of the reasons for the lists of gun safety rules is that people, being people, will occasionally make mistakes.

Example: Despite what the anti's might have you believe, guns maintained in reasonably good order do not just spontaneously go off. Modern guns, in fact, are really only going to go off if you pull the trigger. Thus, "don't put your finger on the trigger until you're ready to shoot" would theoretically be entirely adequate to gun safety except that people do make mistakes. And so we also have "always keep the gun pointed in a safe direction." To cause an injury one now has to make not one but two mistakes. Adding an additional level, on the order of "keep the chamber empty until you are preparing to shoot" is not necessarily forgetting the rule "treat all guns with the respect due a loaded gun" but is an extra layer. Now you need three mistakes (pointing in an unsafe direction, finger on trigger, and round in chamber) to cause an accidental injury.

One can argue whether that extra step is necessary, but I don't think it's justified in assuming people are using it as a substitute for the rest. And, although I choose differently and am one of those who can and will argue about the necessity and the resulting downsides of that extra step (see my posts uptopic), I will not fault folk for making that call for themselves.

 

[singlestacksig]

in response to those who say they do not carry chambered because of children, might i suggest a gun that has a magazine disconect.
there are several decent makers such as S&W . FN High power..
just by removing & pocketing the mag you can render the gun safer than just having it not chambered...

 

[SavageEagle]

USMC- see page 6 of this thread. And it's a Baby Eagle.

I don't ignore one single safety rule. I treat all my guns as if loaded and teach my children all the same. But leaving the chamber empty, ESPECIALLY around the house, is important to me so that a sudden jolt (I.E. Wrestling on the floor with multipule kids) doesn't set the firing pin flying. Once I have some practice I may start carrying with one in the chamber. But I refuse to do something I'm uncomfortable with. Call me stupid for doing so, but that's a choice I will have to live with should the time come. I'm not calling anyone stupid on here except for those who completely ignore the safe gun handling rules.

 

[singlestacksig]

does the baby eagle have a fring pin block? a gun with a ggod pin block will not fire if dropped..
if anything , if hit hard enough, the hammer / pin system will be damaged and the gun will not fire at all...

most new production handguns do not have free floating firing pins..

 

[dburkhead]

I'm not familiar with the Baby Eagle, but that picture looks like it has an external hammer and that holster appears to have a retention strap, and a quick web search tells me that it's double-action/single action. It also tells me that you have a positive firing pin block safety.

Now, my next question is: could the retention strap of the holster be routed between the hammer face and the firing pin with the hammer cocked? If so, then you've got as close to an utterly safe way to carry with a round in the chamber as is possible. For an accidental discharge to happen, all of the following, at a minimum, has to happen:

- The retention strap has to come loose
- The retention strap has to be moved out from between the hammer and firing pin
- The thumb safety has to be switched off or the sear safety has to fail.
- (If thumb safety has not been switched off), the firing pin blocking safety has to fail.
- The sear has to be worn to an unsafe extent
- The hammer has to be struck with sufficient force to knock it loose from the dangerously worn sear. (Not as easy as Hollywood would have you think)

The last two steps could be replaced with:
- the gun has to come completely out of the holster.
- Something has to pull the trigger (generally several pounds of force with the gun held in place so it doesn't just move rather than the trigger being pulled).

And there may be more depending on what other safety features are built into the gun.

As I've mentioned before, it's your call, of course, but, IMO, it's better to make the call based on facts rather than fears.

 

[singlestacksig]

I'm not familiar with the Baby Eagle, but that picture looks like it has an external hammer and that holster appears to have a retention strap, and a quick web search tells me that it's double-action/single action. It also tells me that you have a positive firing pin block safety.

i google the baby eagle and found people talking about early production & jericho ones that do NOT have a pin block..

so condition 3 is a recommended carry..

if it has no firing pin spring , nor a firing pin block you can get it to fire even in a good holster with a strap under hammer..

it would take one heck of a whack.. but it could be done...

i have a makarov that has a free floating pin when the safety is off....

 

[SavageEagle]

This is the newest Gen Eagle and yes it has a firing pin block. I guess I didn't really understand how all that worked. But I know when I flip the safety down, the firing pin slides back into the slide so i can't be struck. at the same time the hammer drops. I've tested this everytime I've had it at a range, but I haven't drop tested it.

 

[singlestacksig]

This is the newest Gen Eagle and yes it has a firing pin block. I guess I didn't really understand how all that worked. But I know when I flip the safety down, the firing pin slides back into the slide so i can't be struck. at the same time the hammer drops. I've tested this everytime I've had it at a range, but I haven't drop tested it.

it sounds fine to carry loaded and on safe..
some guns have a pin blocking the firing pin from moving unless the trigger is fully pulled, S&W autos , and can be carried with safety off if you wish..

 

[mosesiscarryingapdw]

Edit: Wow, that was ugly. Sorry about that. This site is now black listed at work and my proxy isn't quite as good as I hope.

SSH to home router, tunneling to squid proxy running on my Linux server, company doesn't know any of my activities online.


To the 14% or so at this point that aren't carrying a weapon without a FPB, you are unnecessarily putting your life at risk by assuming that you will be able to accomplish an israeli draw under highly stressful conditions. I don't care if you have children, whatever, unless you have a really, really terrible holster or a gun without a firing pin block you should have one in the chamber in whatever safest "ready to fire" condition your gun supports.

 

[Soundslikejosh]

In some ways, I think that after 10 pages (TEN PAGES!!) of discussion on this topic, if a person cannot see the merit in carrying a loaded weapon, then I don't want to encourage them anyway. If they cannot grasp this issue then I feel a little better knowing they aren't carrying a loaded gun.

If it's your first day, I completely grant you a wildcard. You have a lot to think about, and its all foreign.

If its the first time you've asked the question, and have not examined the issue yet, I again extend a wildcard.

If you have followed this thread, and still can't stop making excuses, then please don't carry a loaded gun.

Sorry for coming off as a jerk but I just sometimes wonder what it might take to convince a person that the sky is blue.

 

[SavageEagle]

I love these discussions. i always learn something and I thank you for that. Sometimes I must argue a point and ask stupid questions to get the right answers or at least answers I can understand. So if I hit a nerve with anyone, Im sorry. My intentions are only to learn, not to anger. So thank you for the enlightenment, sirs, you have my upmost respect.

 

[indyjoe]

SSH to home router, tunneling to squid proxy running on my Linux server, company doesn't know any of my activities online.

That would be the case, if either of my Linux servers were possible to setup currently. New house, two floors. Everything is wireless right now and the office can't get setup until I get it painted. It will be quite a while before I can setup things how I want.

 

[bwframe]

That would be the case, if either of my Linux servers were possible to setup currently. New house, two floors. Everything is wireless right now and the office can't get setup until I get it painted. It will be quite a while before I can setup things how I want.

So what are you waiting for, are you just lazy or what?
I'm still looking at the end of a 150ft cat6 cable with no connector! It's only been there three weeks! Still using wireless at "low" signal strength.

BTW- Always carried the 1911 with one in the tube, even when public (and LEO) perception was that I was a "dangerous cowboy" for having the hammer cocked on it.
My advice;
If you're worried about safety, good for you. However, I'd suggest carrying a revolver until you are comfortable with a semi-automatic.

 

[singlestacksig]

I also refuse to own a sidearm with an external safety. For much the same reason that I carry with one in the chamber. Time is crucial. Quarter seconds count.

The closest thing to a safety on my current carry pistol is a decocker.

I have to ask... What gun has a safety that would slow draw time?
every gun i own that has a safey does not effect draw time..

the 1911 frame mounted style is the best. and one disengages the safety while the gun is being brought to aim...

even the slide mounted 'up to fire' style like the S&W 3rd gen autos have does not slow me down...
of course you have to be more careful at making sure the gun fits your hand..

 

[jeremy]

I have to ask... What gun has a safety that would slow draw time?
every gun i own that has a safey does not effect draw time..

For me it is just personal preference, as much as anything. As I have yet to see a quality firearm discharge all on its own, with out some idiot playing with it.
To me and in my experience it is just one more thing to do, or to fail posibbly at a time you can't afford it. Murphy's Law.