Coronovirus IV

[SheepDog4Life]

Hopefully the tide is turning.

I feel like we should pretend that Trump never said anything about any treatment and the treatments should be evaluated on their own merits (they are neither good, nor bad because Trump praised them)...but that's crazy talk these days.

As far as I can tell, there is a single study that showed the HCQ was not helpful and may have been harmful to patients who were extremely sick when the medication was started.

Meanwhile, there is mounting evidence (with studies which have been or are being peer reviewed) that when given with Zinc, HCQ can improve outcomes in those who have been exposed or whose COVID-19 has not yet become severe (an prophylactic antibiotic may be helpful in cases where a pneumonia is developing to keep lung fluid from becoming a breeding ground for bacteria, complicating the disease, but does not directly work "with" the HCQ).

As with all medical treatments, it will work in some situations better than others and may even harm in some...but that's why we do multiple studies under different conditions with different kinds of patients and different doses.

The main takeaway from the article is that most people don't understand what they're reading when they see these kinds of studies, and that lack of understanding is being manipulated (intentionally and unintentionally) for political purposes.

I'll stand on what I've asserted since the beginning, though: HCQ is a safe and effective treatment for COVID-19, when administered at the appropriate stage of infection - and primarily speaking, the people who claim that it is unsafe and/or ineffective simply don't know what they're talking about (or they do know, and are maliciously putting people's lives at risk because Orange Man Bad).

Concur with both of you.

The studies I've seen that show it causing harm, mostly heart arrhythmia, all involve extremely high dosing of 4-5x the maximum recommended safe dosing of 600 mg the first day (15x the normal dose). They have 2400-3000 mg cumulative doses in the first 24 hours...

THE DOSE MAKES THE POISON.

At 15x the recommended dose (15x2 pills = 30 full-size pills), ASPIRIN can be fatal for average/small adults!

And, most of those "negative" studies are hospitalized patients... who by definition have progressed past the "treat the virus" stage and require "treating the autoimmune response" treatments... two different treatments.

 

[nonobaddog]

That is some serious TDS when they **** with treating a disease that kills people.

 

[Phase2]

That is some serious TDS when they **** with treating a disease that kills people.

And when they allow their own cities to be destroyed...

And when they destroy businesses in their districts...

And when they keep children locked down...

Kinda seems like they are far less interested in serving the American people than defeating Trump.

 

[actaeon277]

A facebook friend of mine (and someone I encounter weekly in real life) posted a link to an alarmist article about people being jailed for not taking the vaccine. I say "alarmist" because that was the nature of the article...and there currently is no vaccine. I understand that there are varying opinions about a possible vaccine. No problem. The article was talking about people being jailed and saying (or implying) that the authority to make a vaccine mandatory to a recent thing to further this Bill Gates, mark of the beast thing. All of the comments (many by other of my friends) were laced with conspiracy theory.

All I said in a comment was this:

"The Supreme Court found that states could make vaccines mandatory in 1905. This is not a recent thing based upon COVID-19. Hopefully it will not be made mandatory and if 65+% of the people get the vaccine, there will be no need to. I plan on getting it when and if it is available."

Like I said, I know there are plenty of opinions on the theoretical vaccine, and I expect that.

I found out why, though, ALL of the comments followed the same line of thought. 2 minutes after I posted, my comment was deleted...by my friend.

People do NOT value opposing arguments, or any in fact that do not toe the line.


If you speak the truth, keep one foot in the saddle.

 

[actaeon277]

Gov. Cuomo states that investigation into Nursing Home deaths is unnecessary .
Imagine that.

[video=youtube;pYPKXYXV4jw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYPKXYXV4jw[/video]

 

[nonobaddog]

Gov. Cuomo states that investigation into Nursing Home deaths is unnecessary .
Imagine that.

Maybe he means just get right to the lawsuits and criminal convictions.

 

[foszoe]

https://apnews.com/fcda62ad992db414d65f23b2adb78e44

I am sure Trump wanted to beat Putin to this punch. Well, I am not sure Trump would have used his own daughter though, a niece maybe, but not a daughter.

 

[Kdf101]

i don't care who develops what first, or who goes first. if it is a legitimate vaccine, then good.

 

[Ingomike]

i don't care who develops what first, or who goes first. if it is a legitimate vaccine, then good.

May I ask, just what is a legitimate vaccine?

Is that when the government says so?

When CNN says so?

When CDC and WHO say so?

Or maybe when a pharmaceutical company that spent billions and got a fast track from the government says so?

What is a legitimate vaccine again?

 

[nonobaddog]

In russia, it is a vaccine when putin says it is a vaccine.

Oh, nevermind, you said legitimate vaccine.

 

[T.Lex]

In russia, it is a vaccine when putin says it is a vaccine.

Kinda like HCQ and Trump in the US.

Russia has less restrictions around development of things like this, and Putin has more power to waive what restrictions there are (and have oligarchs pay for it and get paid for it). Russia might've actually gotten something at least minimally effective.

I personally won't believe it until I see "western" peer reviewed studies, but we really can't rule it out.

Kinda like with HCQ and Trump in the US.

 

[HoughMade]

https://apnews.com/fcda62ad992db414d65f23b2adb78e44

I am sure Trump wanted to beat Putin to this punch. Well, I am not sure Trump would have used his own daughter though, a niece maybe, but not a daughter.

As will come as no surprise to any INGO member, I will wait for the evidence to come in. But hey, it would be great, wouldn't it?

I mean, what are the chances that Bill Gates had anything to do with this? Therefore, it is probably safer that what the U.S. will eventually get.

 

[jedi]

May I ask, just what is a legitimate vaccine?

Is that when the government says so?

When CNN says so?

When CDC and WHO say so?

Or maybe when a pharmaceutical company that spent billions and got a fast track from the government says so?

What is a legitimate vaccine again?

I see you are going to be a trouble maker and NOT get your "mandatory" vaccine. Please wait outside for the unmarket van. Some "re-education" will be needed for you, comrade.

 

[foszoe]

Yes. As with almost all things, I will remain skeptical but cautiously optimistic. Hopeful even.

As will come as no surprise to any INGO member, I will wait for the evidence to come in. But hey, it would be great, wouldn't it?

I mean, what are the chances that Bill Gates had anything to do with this? Therefore, it is probably safer that what the U.S. will eventually get.

 

[BugI02]

Kinda like HCQ and Trump in the US.

Russia has less restrictions around development of things like this, and Putin has more power to waive what restrictions there are (and have oligarchs pay for it and get paid for it). Russia might've actually gotten something at least minimally effective.

I personally won't believe it until I see "western" peer reviewed studies, but we really can't rule it out.

Kinda like with HCQ and Trump in the US.

You mean 'western' peer reviewed studies like the one The Lancet was forced to retract because it used a made up data set? Or like social media removing the video made by frontline doctors supporting the use of HCQ?

Because propaganda and censorship seem pretty Putinesque to me, and it doesn't seem to be Trump doing it over here.

 

[Kdf101]

It used to be easy to tell when a vaccine was legitimate, it worked. Now, not so much. Science and medicine have become so politicized that even they are interpreted based on political leanings. This world has turned into bizarro land. I will stick to my own personal standard, that has worked for over 50 years, if it works, then the vaccine is legitimate.

 

[foszoe]

I am genuinely starting to wonder, so yeah its a REAL question.....

Is the only approved study, for you as a person, a BugI02 approved study? I mean do you apply the same rigor to every product you use or are there some where you'll say, "I will just trust the experts on this one". Not just for you Bug but for anyone who keeps tossing up and out studies.

You mean 'western' peer reviewed studies like the one The Lancet was forced to retract because it used a made up data set? Or like social media removing the video made by frontline doctors supporting the use of HCQ?

Because propaganda and censorship seem pretty Putinesque to me, and it doesn't seem to be Trump doing it over here.

 

[HoughMade]

If you read enough medical journals (and before COVID-19, unless you are a medical professional, a lawyer who does health law or another health-related profession, why would you?) you start to be able to tell good journals from not-so-good journals and, more importantly, good research and content from less reliable content.

It's like how a vet can spot another vet, or a stolen valor guy. There are tells. Some are more obvious than others.

...this is why the Lancet article got called out and also why the Wakefield vaccine article got called out.

Now, one concept that may be difficult to grasp is that an article that results from a conceptually sound study, honest research and sound process may be found to have faults. This can be, for instance, because what turned out to be an important variable was unknown and thus, not accounted for (or for other reasons). This is why peer review often involved replication. This is just how science works when it is done honestly. Even with sound technique and research, you sometimes come to realize there are those unknown, unknowns. After all, if we had all the answers to begin with, we wouldn't need the research.

 

[Ingomike]

Kinda like HCQ and Trump in the US.

Russia has less restrictions around development of things like this, and Putin has more power to waive what restrictions there are (and have oligarchs pay for it and get paid for it). Russia might've actually gotten something at least minimally effective.

I personally won't believe it until I see "western" peer reviewed studies, but we really can't rule it out.

Kinda like with HCQ and Trump in the US.

HCQ is known and has been used for decades. It was brought up because it had efficacy when they first we're looking at bat viruses in the early 2000's.

Follow the money...

 

[JettaKnight]

May I ask, just what is a legitimate vaccine?

Is that when the government says so?

When CNN says so?

When CDC and WHO say so?

Or maybe when a pharmaceutical company that spent billions and got a fast track from the government says so?

What is a legitimate vaccine again?

Don't be obtuse; the FDA determines that, like always.