Coronavirus II

[MarkC]

Well #2 is gonna require a source by me because that sounds like absolute crap. I stopped reading at that.


https://www.businessinsider.com/most-us-coronavirus-deaths-ages-65-older-cdc-report-2020-3

So, we should believe the licensed, educated, and trained physician who is working literally on the front lines of the healthcare system, or a semi-anonymous email predicting a dire doom?

THE EMAIL, OF COURSE!

 

[OurDee]

Operator beards are cool till the mask leaks. Or you are identified because your dessert camo stands out in the nato woodlands. Get you some realtree or urban grey.

 

[jedi]

A question about wearing masks. I was confused by some of the wording regarding masks, from one of the earlier posted articles. I understand the mask helps to not spread the virus with your cough droplets. But as a defense to breathing in the virus, I found this wording confusing. Can anyone shed light on this? Here's the wording:

"Should we be wearing masks?
The N95 mask itself is extremely wonderful. The pores in the mask are three microns wide. The virus is one micron wide. So you get people who say, well, it's not going to work. But you try having three big, huge football players who are rushing for lunch through a door at lunchtime—they're not going to get through. In the latest data I saw, the mask provided 5x protection."

.

Very good analogy.

Here is the text of what an N95 mask blocks.
The N95 is made by various manufacturers under different names, from MSA's "Affinity Foldable Respirator" to 3M's "Particulate Respirator." Look for "NIOSH N95" on the package; the "N95" is a government efficiency rating that means the mask blocks about 95 percent of particles that are 0.3 microns in size or larger.

Source:
https://www.ph.ucla.edu/epi/bioter/n95masks.html

Here is the text of what a N100 (next level up) mask blocks.
Quite simply, a respirator with a rating of P100, has been tested to be proof against oil, and tested to filter 99.97% of all particles 0.3 microns in diameter or larger. To the right you can see various examples of the size (in microns) of various substances for comparison.

Source:
https://www.envirosafetyproducts.com/resources/dust-masks-whats-the-difference.html

Note P100 is for oil particles, N100 is not oil particles.

In the case of the C-Virus it's not oil based for N100 will work just like N95 mask. If you wear a P100 mask that is fine to.

The point is N95 o N100 both capture .3 micron particles or larger of which the C-Virus is in that category. So so you want a 5% chance of catching it by wearing an N95 or do you want a .03% chance by wearing an N100?

If you want a zero chance you need to be using a oxygen based full mask think what firefighters use when working in smoke. But that is just not practical and not really needed.

We know the virus can stay in the air for up to 3 hours per this link.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2004973?query=RP

And we know in enclosed, recycled air the virus does circulate per thos report.
https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1182008.shtml

So what is one to do?
Stay away from sick people. If you do have to go into an enclosed space (store, bus, train) wear the mask for more protection. Wear the N100 for better results.

Outside, open air, your chances of getting it are less. Say you walk in the park. If someone coughs near you yes you have a higher % of getting it but that is open air no way to know where those droplets are going.

Much different in say an elevator when someone coughs. Enclosed space and you are all breathing that same air.

Also note it appears that sunlight, the UV rays, damaged the c-virus and kills it. Not instantly but over time. So outside air with sunlight all day makes your chances of getting it very low.

 

[hoosierdoc]

It's sad that healthcare workers have minimal PPE and will be destroyed financially while working during this crisis.

At least our air conditioner works I guess.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-for-hurricane-payday-adventure-idUSKCN1BK0PP

 

[T.Lex]

Skipped the last pages of the old thread and the first of this one.

The numbers continue to look good. Basically, it is too early for a real trendline, but we might be hitting a plateau in the number of daily deaths.

I'm concerned that there might be under-reporting because of the weekend (which would be a reflection of incompetence - c'mon people, work weekends!) but barring any big correction, things continue to look good.

@qwerty I like the conditional formatting. And the addition of some demographic data, as incomplete as it may be.

 

[Mark-DuCo]

Dubois County has it's first confirmed case, although im pretty sure there have been plenty that weren't tested

 

[Bennettjh]

It's sad that healthcare workers have minimal PPE and will be destroyed financially while working during this crisis.

At least our air conditioner works I guess.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-for-hurricane-payday-adventure-idUSKCN1BK0PP

hoosierdoc, I look forward to seeing your reports on here. Firsthand account of all this. I pray for your safety.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

just my opinion, but as to the question about how do we eventually get out of total lockdown/shelter in place, etc?

The biggest key, there are other big ones, but top on the list is the availability of widespread, quick testing... with very low criteria corresponding to the early symptoms, like mild fever. Same day results. If you have it, self quarantine.

Currently, there are people in ICU with SEVERE symptoms, waiting for test results to confirm that its corona virus. Had that person been able to be tested a week or two earlier, when they were just feeling a bit lousy with a 100 degree temp, that could have greatly reduced spread and "flattened the curve".

I just wanted to add, this is the last time I even look at this particular thread. I just cannot anymore. Make up your own minds and pay your own consequences.

I have extended family and immediate family who are nurses on the front lines of this. Intake, pre-ICU non-confirmed care and coronavirus ICU ventilator care.

One is a Chicago ER nurse who's spent years working gunshot cases. This has her shaken to her core. She comes home, vomits, and cries until she can fall asleep, gets what rest she can, then goes in again the next day.

To those of you who think this is "just the flu", you cannot be more wrong.

I cannot talk to my nursing daughter and nieces about this because my advice to them would be "go home, keep yourself and you families safe, and let all the dumb-asses who didn't listen just die."

But they won't, it's not how they're built.

Imagine the 9/11 responders rushing into danger of the towers. Now imagine them knowing, absolutely knowing, the building was going to collapse and they were going in to rescue people who were also told to get out, when there was plenty of time, but just decided not to because something else was more important... some "big" business deal or some-such.

Yeah, I just cannot even talk to anyone who thinks this is a nothing-burger.

If there is a useful thread on things to do to help yourself and other's be safe and help end this, I'm interested. This thread ain't it.

 

[Snapdragon]

Couldn't agree more, Sheepdog.

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to SheepDog4Life again."

 

[Ingomike]

I'm sure those with the this is the SHTF moment will be along soon with their "reports" and "stats" that back up their bias...

 

[wagyu52]

We live just 2 mi from Illinois, all our closest big box stores are in Danville, wife works there. Her job requires her to be there so her employer passed out letters stating so in case they get stopped.

 

[Phase2]

A question about wearing masks. I was confused by some of the wording regarding masks, from one of the earlier posted articles. I understand the mask helps to not spread the virus with your cough droplets. But as a defense to breathing in the virus, I found this wording confusing. Can anyone shed light on this? Here's the wording:

"Should we be wearing masks?
The N95 mask itself is extremely wonderful. The pores in the mask are three microns wide. The virus is one micron wide. So you get people who say, well, it's not going to work. But you try having three big, huge football players who are rushing for lunch through a door at lunchtime—they're not going to get through. In the latest data I saw, the mask provided 5x protection."

These filters screen out very small particles including the virus (which are often delivered in bigger "blobs" because they tend to travel in water mist/droplets). That protection works both ways. N95 (and the lesser known R95 and P95) masks reduce particle penetration by about 95%. N100/R100/P100 protection reduces penetration by 99.9%.

"Viral load" is an important factor in whether you actually contract the disease at all and how severe it is and how quickly you recover. Having someone cough directly in your face delivers a large "viral load" that makes is much harder for your body to fight off and you are more likely to get a serious case than if you had a relatively small exposure where you body has more time to isolate and fight the disease.

That is why it is worthwhile to even wear basic cloth masks. Even their partial protection filters most of your cough/sneeze moisture and prevents at least some from coming in. Nations like Japan where you see a lot of masks being worn in public seem to be having lower infection curves over time.

 

[ditcherman]

Couldn't agree more, Sheepdog.

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to SheepDog4Life again."

Same, and I got him.

 

[mmpsteve]

KS and Jedi; Sirs, thank you for your responses. I believe my confusion was from the world-esteemed expert being quoted as 3 micron pores versus .3 micron, in the masks. Obviously makes a huge difference when comparing to 1 micron virus. I only posed the question because I have several used masks I wear for sanding on wood projects, that I can press into service if I have to have contact with people. If I had any quantity of new ones, I'd donate to a hospital, but I don't. I'm a little torn right now as to locking my print-shop door, and only working thru email and phone. We do several faxes per day for walk-in clients that need to send important papers for legal/medical transactions. I hate to pull that service out from under them, but at some point I have to wonder if it's worth the risk. Thanks again.

The N-95 mask can protect but...

...they need to to fit properly and be used properly.

My my wife was fitting these for employees for a while at the hospital. The mask come in different sizes and shapes for different faces. Don’t touch, don’t lift the edge to breath when it gets stuffy, don’t contaminate when putting on/off. A lot of her advice to me was Common Sense but we know how little Common Sense exist in our society.

Remember the higher death rate in males? Probably all those guys with Operator Beards not getting a good mask seal.

Very good analogy.

Here is the text of what an N95 mask blocks.
The N95 is made by various manufacturers under different names, from MSA's "Affinity Foldable Respirator" to 3M's "Particulate Respirator." Look for "NIOSH N95" on the package; the "N95" is a government efficiency rating that means the mask blocks about 95 percent of particles that are 0.3 microns in size or larger.

Source:
https://www.ph.ucla.edu/epi/bioter/n95masks.html

Here is the text of what a N100 (next level up) mask blocks.
Quite simply, a respirator with a rating of P100, has been tested to be proof against oil, and tested to filter 99.97% of all particles 0.3 microns in diameter or larger. To the right you can see various examples of the size (in microns) of various substances for comparison.

Source:
https://www.envirosafetyproducts.com/resources/dust-masks-whats-the-difference.html

Note P100 is for oil particles, N100 is not oil particles.

In the case of the C-Virus it's not oil based for N100 will work just like N95 mask. If you wear a P100 mask that is fine to.

The point is N95 o N100 both capture .3 micron particles or larger of which the C-Virus is in that category. So so you want a 5% chance of catching it by wearing an N95 or do you want a .03% chance by wearing an N100?

If you want a zero chance you need to be using a oxygen based full mask think what firefighters use when working in smoke. But that is just not practical and not really needed.

We know the virus can stay in the air for up to 3 hours per this link.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2004973?query=RP

And we know in enclosed, recycled air the virus does circulate per thos report.
https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1182008.shtml

So what is one to do?
Stay away from sick people. If you do have to go into an enclosed space (store, bus, train) wear the mask for more protection. Wear the N100 for better results.

Outside, open air, your chances of getting it are less. Say you walk in the park. If someone coughs near you yes you have a higher % of getting it but that is open air no way to know where those droplets are going.

Much different in say an elevator when someone coughs. Enclosed space and you are all breathing that same air.

Also note it appears that sunlight, the UV rays, damaged the c-virus and kills it. Not instantly but over time. So outside air with sunlight all day makes your chances of getting it very low.

 

[d.kaufman]

Here's a pretty good article. Lengthy read, but well worth it


https://realconservativesunite.com/2020/03/22/covid-19-evidence-over-hysteria/

 

[Phase2]

It's sad that healthcare workers have minimal PPE and will be destroyed financially while working during this crisis.

At least our air conditioner works I guess.

Unfortunately, the national stockpile was depleted and never replenished after the swine flu outbreak in 2009. Oops...

Back in 2005, the Bush Administration published the “National Strategy for Pandemic Influenza.” The strategy called for plans to distribute medical supplies from the national stockpile and to assist state and local efforts to handle an outbreak, but last month, Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar told Congress that the national stockpile of N95 respirator masks was 12 million—a mere fraction of the 1.7 billion masks government scientists estimated back in 2015 would be needed in the event of a severe flu outbreak.

How did we end up with such a low stockpile? It used to be much larger. What happened to it?

Buried several paragraphs deep in the aforementioned Bloomberg story we find out that “after the H1N1 influenza outbreak in 2009, which triggered a nationwide shortage of masks and caused a 2- to 3-year backlog orders for the N95 variety, the stockpile distributed about three-quarters of its inventory and didn’t build back the supply.”

 

[mmpsteve]

I missed your response Phase2, and thanks. I believe it's important enough to quote your message again, in case some missed it. The article I quoted was vastly misleading, at least to me, quoting 3 micron instead of .3 micron pores in the masks.

These filters screen out very small particles including the virus (which are often delivered in bigger "blobs" because they tend to travel in water mist/droplets). That protection works both ways. N95 (and the lesser known R95 and P95) masks reduce particle penetration by about 95%. N100/R100/P100 protection reduces penetration by 99.9%.

"Viral load" is an important factor in whether you actually contract the disease at all and how severe it is and how quickly you recover. Having someone cough directly in your face delivers a large "viral load" that makes is much harder for your body to fight off and you are more likely to get a serious case than if you had a relatively small exposure where you body has more time to isolate and fight the disease.

That is why it is worthwhile to even wear basic cloth masks. Even their partial protection filters most of your cough/sneeze moisture and prevents at least some from coming in. Nations like Japan where you see a lot of masks being worn in public seem to be having lower infection curves over time.

 

[Alpo]

^this!
Plus can we stop with all the NON C-virus chatter and funnies.
2 pages of post of people just posting side bar conversations.
If you want to talk about that go to the main breakroom unofficial status update or create a new post.

Seems like we lost smokingman already with his info links.
It's hard enough to keep up on the real info with everyone else having sidebars in here.

Who made you soup nazi?

It's real funny how rugged individualists can all of a sudden become more controlling than Elizabeth Warren and know what's good for everyone and how they should respond and act and look.

Nonsense. This is the break room and I enjoy hearing differing opinions about almost ANYTHING. Doesn't mean I have to like them or read some of the scary conspiracies. But, I can ignore that person or skip over their post.

Relax. We are in this for the long haul methinks. And no one is gonna march in step if they don't want to.

 

[BugI02]

Buddy, I was wayyy ahead of you... Then I pissed my back off and had to slow down. Then I kicked up enough dust doing stuff that I gave myself allergy problems that might have been, and still might be, the start of a sinus infection. Since it doesn't seem like a good time to get regular sick, I said screw it, and settled into being a total slug for the past 3 days.

View attachment 85247

 

[hoosierdoc]

hoosierdoc, I look forward to seeing your reports on here. Firsthand account of all this. I pray for your safety.

I'm second hand now as my spring break time off is right now. Next shift next sunday but I've offered to cover for others now