Colin Kaepernick protests the Anthem

[jamil]

So if White people support BLM or the NFL protests... of which there are many, given the above statements, what can be said about them? Are they "anti-white racists," "bigots." "pro-discrimination," against the group they identify with? The white versions of Leroy Jenkins?
There's an agenda at play.
...All in a fairly small posting history.

I think it's well enough established that there are some SJW type whites, who are what objective people could call, "anti-white". But that's more because of virtue-signaling than them actually being against whites. They're white, after all. Remember the "you're a ****ing white male" mullet dude? There is a legitimate beef with SJWs on that, in that they use it to shut people down, like that guy tried to do to the Trumpers he was arguing with. Implied is the idea that white/male privilege automatically renders white male opinions invalid on any subject. The left is fixated on identities, which really impedes racial harmony.

Of course, not to be outdone, on the alt-right side of things, there's also an identitarian thing going on. It's almost the same sort of victim-hood thing the cultural Marxists have going on, except without the intersectionality/oppression nonsense.

I'll also say this. The critical theory/intersectionality/oppression/neo-marxism, is what fed the alt-right and created a mirror image. So now both fringes are growing. Everyone's in their own bubbles. It'd be nice to see people just stop caring about **** that don't matter and just live their own lives as individuals, instead if identitarians.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I think it's well enough established that there are some SJW type whites, who are what objective people could call, "anti-white". But that's more because of virtue-signaling than them actually being against whites. They're white, after all. Remember the "you're a ****ing white male" mullet dude? There is a legitimate beef with SJWs on that, in that they use it to shut people down, like that guy tried to do to the Trumpers he was arguing with. Implied is the idea that white/male privilege automatically renders white male opinions invalid on any subject. The left is fixated on identities, which really impedes racial harmony.

Of course, not to be outdone, on the alt-right side of things, there's also an identitarian thing going on. It's almost the same sort of victim-hood thing the cultural Marxists have going on, except without the intersectionality/oppression nonsense.

I'll also say this. The critical theory/intersectionality/oppression/neo-marxism, is what fed the alt-right and created a mirror image. So now both fringes are growing. Everyone's in their own bubbles. It'd be nice to see people just stop caring about **** that don't matter and just live their own lives as individuals, instead if identitarians.

Keeping in mind the subject of this thread, do you think the protesters (and those that support them) are anti-white, and expressing bigotry against white people?

 

[jamil]

Keeping in mind the subject of this thread, do you think the protesters (and those that support them) are anti-white, and expressing bigotry against white people?

I certainly wouldn't say everyone who's kneeling or supporting them is anti-white. Some are. People openly expressing themselves on Twitter makes that very clear. But as far as I can tell, I don't think Kaepernick is anti-white. I think his GF is a bat-**** crazy progressive ideologue, and I suspect he's indoctrinated by her.

But overall, I'd say the whole issue is about two fringes in a culture war talking past each other, but there are also some agendas at play.

Now I think I have plenty of reasons to suspect Nessa is anti-white, given many of her comments on social media. That tweet to Ray Lewis, for example, was appalling, and is obviously anti-white.

So what do you say about that? Ray Lewis suggests publicly that maybe Kaepernick is having a hard time finding a job because he's wearing his politics on his sleeves, so to speak, implying that there are naturally social consequences to making non-political things political. So then Nessa basically calls him a house n-word, shortly after her tweet, the Ravens close the door on Kaepernick. Surely you see that it's racist to imply Ray Lewis is betraying his "blackness" by agreeing with some people who happen to be white. Not wanting to politicize everything is not a "white" idea.

So. Let's give people the benefit of the doubt about why they're kneeling. Let's say they're all sincere about kneeling to protest mistreatment of blacks by police, because I think it's fair to think most are sincere. But why did they not jump Nessa's **** for that tweet to Ray Lewis? That tweet undermines any perception of sincere motives for protesting. But one thing it did accomplish, whether intended or not. It kept Kaepernick's "victimhood" status alive.

 

[bmbutch]

All of this hoopla, has it impacted those you know (personally know):
1). They weren't on board with the police brutality, etc., but are now.
2). They are in general more aware & sympathetic to the cause.
3). They are in general more aware but haven't shifted in their support.
4). They were previously quiet about their beliefs/thoughts, but are now more vocal about them.
5). Turned previously "non racist leaning" people into "racist" leaning people.

My peer grip: Liberal types are all in, Conservatives are disgusted. Me, it's their right to protest, my right to find them disgusting. I truly believe they could find numerous better avenues of protest.

 

[Birds Away]

It think they've gotten the attention they were seeking. Now it's time to move away from the divisive displays and try to bring people together towards addressing the issue. Okay, you've called attention to yourself and said that there is an issue. Message received. Now what?

 

[churchmouse]

It think they've gotten the attention they were seeking. Now it's time to move away from the divisive displays and try to bring people together towards addressing the issue. Okay, you've called attention to yourself and said that there is an issue. Message received. Now what?

I am still waiting for a solid believable list of real grievances.

 

[Expat]

I think it's well enough established that there are some SJW type whites, who are what objective people could call, "anti-white". But that's more because of virtue-signaling than them actually being against whites. They're white, after all. Remember the "you're a ****ing white male" mullet dude? There is a legitimate beef with SJWs on that, in that they use it to shut people down, like that guy tried to do to the Trumpers he was arguing with. Implied is the idea that white/male privilege automatically renders white male opinions invalid on any subject. The left is fixated on identities, which really impedes racial harmony.

On Designated Survivor, there was some young white girl explaining to an older black man, that had lived through the protests of the 60's, about racism and racial sensitivities. I found it humorous.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

I am still waiting for a solid believable list of real grievances.

"Hands up, don't shoot", dontcha know!

Oh, wait, that's a lie.

 

[Benp]

It think they've gotten the attention they were seeking. Now it's time to move away from the divisive displays and try to bring people together towards addressing the issue. Okay, you've called attention to yourself and said that there is an issue. Message received. Now what?

That's the problem, there is no where to go from here.
Some people just like to say "It ain't right!" and be angry about things. You try to get them to pinpoint what the problem is and they can't get you any real examples, they just want to be angry and be heard.

 

[Birds Away]

That's the problem, there is no where to go from here.
Some people just like to say "It ain't right!" and be angry about things. You try to get them to pinpoint what the problem is and they can't get you any real examples, they just want to be angry and be heard.

There are clearly issues that should be discussed.

 

[churchmouse]

There are clearly issues that should be discussed.

Granted but we need to know what they are.
All the LEO things is for the most part a load of hooey. Yes there are issues but usually when non-compliance is how interactions begin.
I could go on but would only be responding to media hype.

 

[Birds Away]

Granted but we need to know what they are.
All the LEO things is for the most part a load of hooey. Yes there are issues but usually when non-compliance is how interactions begin.
I could go on but would only be responding to media hype.

I don't believe all of it is a load of hooey. The problem is that we can't talk about the legitimate issues without also bringing up issues we are not allowed to talk about. There is cause and effect here but we can't go down that road.

 

[Benp]

I don't believe all of it is a load of hooey. The problem is that we can't talk about the legitimate issues without also bringing up issues we are not allowed to talk about. There is cause and effect here but we can't go down that road.

Who is going to talk about it, and what are they hoping to resolve? Looking for equality? That's not going to happen because life isn't fair. Life CAN be fair, but there is nothing stated that it HAS to be. There are plenty of injustices going on in the world and mankind is not going to be able to correct them. We read about successful people and think about how great it must be to be them, but if you look into their history most of them were encountering difficulty and setbacks, but they kept going and trying and didn't give up.
Life is like a diamond stone, it can either wear you out or it can sharpen you to be the best that you can be.

 

[jamil]

It think they've gotten the attention they were seeking. Now it's time to move away from the divisive displays and try to bring people together towards addressing the issue. Okay, you've called attention to yourself and said that there is an issue. Message received. Now what?

There are clearly issues that should be discussed.

Granted but we need to know what they are.
All the LEO things is for the most part a load of hooey. Yes there are issues but usually when non-compliance is how interactions begin.
I could go on but would only be responding to media hype.

This is not directed at anyone specifically, but generally in response to the question about what is the extent of the problem and what do we do about it.

We still have some bonafide racist people in this country. There's no denying that. And enough people still have racial prejudices that if they're in positions of authority, the results could be called oppressive.

I think a major problem preventing much progress on the issue is the race identitarians on both sides have skewed perceptions of the extent of the problems, and they're the ones doing the loudest talking. The alt-right identitarians tend to deny there's a problem at all. The Leftist identitarians tend to think the problem is way bigger than it is, that it is systemic, and institutional. I don't think we'll make any progress until we take an honest look at it and get those fringes stop talking past each other.

 

[jamil]

"Hands up, don't shoot", dontcha know!

Oh, wait, that's a lie.

There are some legitimate grievances, but going beyond that reality with this "hands up don't shoot" narrative is just going to tune people out when they learn it was made up. It's dishonest. And people notice.

And that's the problem the left has with itself, the activists have bought too far into Saul Alinsky. They the problem with Alinsky is it account for the sane people who can see right through that nonsense. They've lost many liberals over that crap.

When you claim astonishing things that turn out to be blatantly false, you just look stupid and it actually hurts your cause. When you call every white person who disagrees with you a Nazi, that hurts you among the hugely more white people who aren't Nazis. And when you call black people "White Supremacists" like Tariq Nasheed called Obianuju Ekeocha the other day, you really look stupid, and it really hurts your cause, and she really .

Serious people should dismiss the racist clowns on their side. Tariq Nasheed is a racist clown.

 

[Sylvain]

So this NFL protest thing is just a protest against the police and it's not related to sport?

I haven't followed the whole story but I'm still commenting about it as a true INGOer.
I assumed it was just related to the NFL and how the people kneeling where protesting the fact that they are not paid as much as others in the NFL.
Presumably based on the color of their skin.

I just heard about it because some folks got offended by the kneeling during the national anthem.
And I'm not sure those offended people even know why those players were kneeling in the first place.
Did they even all kneeled for the same reasons?

 

[Kutnupe14]

It appears some folks won't be watching the NFL anytime soon, as apparently the league has decided not to force players to stand. Probably a good idea, for the long run.

 

[jamil]

Who is going to talk about it, and what are they hoping to resolve? Looking for equality? That's not going to happen because life isn't fair. Life CAN be fair, but there is nothing stated that it HAS to be. There are plenty of injustices going on in the world and mankind is not going to be able to correct them. We read about successful people and think about how great it must be to be them, but if you look into their history most of them were encountering difficulty and setbacks, but they kept going and trying and didn't give up.
Life is like a diamond stone, it can either wear you out or it can sharpen you to be the best that you can be.

I understand what you're saying, but I think it seems to lead to a false conclusion that oh well, so what, **** happens. Life isn't fair because **** happens that we can't control, like how other people treat us. We can only control how we react to that. Life is also unequal because humans have different abilities which causes different potentials for success.

However, to the extent to which we can willingly participate in artificial unfairness meted out to others, that is indeed up to us. To whatever extent we think race matters to us as individuals, we can decide to let it continue to matter or not. And in our daily interactions with people who think race matters we can decide how those interactions should continue.

And that's just one side of it. On the other side of it, if you're the "oppressed" minority, and you continually act as if the problem is bigger than it is, and you claim "oppression" where there is none, and you deny the progress that has been made, and you see race as the cause of every negative outcome, because you don't divide when race isn't involved at all, that IS within your control.

Race negatively impacting people's lives is not a non-existent problem. But it is not a group problem either. It is an individual problem. It requires individuals on both sides of the equation to change some things. There's not a societal wand that can be waved to make whatever social evolution that needs to happen, happen. That's not to say that corporate solutions which could help the most individuals, can't be effective.

Kneeling has certainly made people aware that there's a grievance. But consequently, it's not actually effectively addressing a solution. It's not because whatever might be true about the grievances, is overstated in the method used to bring about awareness. Offended people will turn that **** off. That's just not going to individuals thinking about the right things on either side. It'll only exacerbate side-ness. It won't bring about side-less-ness.

A corporate dose of honesty would help. But can Nessa and Tariq and all the other ideologues with an agenda, handle the honesty necessary to make real progress? Is it even progress their agendas seek? Well, given the actions they've taken when even hints of progress were possible, I think not.

 

[Kutnupe14]

So this NFL protest thing is just a protest against the police and it's not related to sport?

I haven't followed the whole story but I'm still commenting about it as a true INGOer.
I assumed it was just related to the NFL and how the people kneeling where protesting the fact that they are not paid as much as others in the NFL.
Presumably based on the color of their skin.

I just heard about it because some folks got offended by the kneeling during the national anthem.
And I'm not sure those offended people even know why those players were kneeling in the first place.
Did they even all kneeled for the same reasons?

They don't seem to know why they're offended, that's for sure.

 

[femurphy77]

It appears some folks won't be watching the NFL anytime soon, as apparently the league has decided not to force players to stand. Probably a good idea, for the long run.

If it goes on long enough the Kardashians will do something stupid to distract people from it and they will return to rooting for the NFL. The question is; can the NFL stand the revenue loss until the next SQUIRREL!!!