Civil Religious Discussions : all things Christianity II

[breakingcontact]

Looks like Voddies surgery went well today.

 

[BugI02]

Since when did prophecy just become predicting future events?
And these "prophets" fail when it's a 50/50 proposition.

And why do people think that God can't work unless their man is in the WH?

Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery
None but ourselves can free our minds
Have no fear for atomic energy
'Cause none of them can stop the time
How long shall they kill our prophets
While we stand aside and look? Ooh
Some say it's just a part of it
We've got to fullfil the book - Redemption Song Mr Bob Marley

 

[JettaKnight]

What say INGO?


https://www.russellmoore.com/2021/03/03/is-the-johnson-johnson-covid-19-vaccine-unethical/

I'm not clear on what constitutes "cell lines derived from an aborted human fetus". But it seems this from an abortion done in 1985. I'm kind of the opinion that it's water under the bridge on that one.

There's almost a parallel to knocking over statutes - medical history is just as messy as everything else, and digging 35 years in past for some dirt...

 

[2A_Tom]

There is nothing wrong with murdering homeless people to harvest their organs.

 

[JettaKnight]

There is nothing wrong with murdering homeless people to harvest their organs.

Please remember this is a civil discussion.

 

[2A_Tom]

Please remember this is a civil discussion.

And saying that ysing aborted fetuses is parallel to knocking over statues is civil?

Joe Mengala would be proud of you.

 

[HoughMade]

What say INGO?


https://www.russellmoore.com/2021/03/03/is-the-johnson-johnson-covid-19-vaccine-unethical/

I'm not clear on what constitutes "cell lines derived from an aborted human fetus". But it seems this from an abortion done in 1985. I'm kind of the opinion that it's water under the bridge on that one.

There's almost a parallel to knocking over statutes - medical history is just as messy as everything else, and digging 35 years in past for some dirt...

I understand that they are drawing a line in the sand and I can respect that.

However, I would not have an issue with someone who is pro-life getting the J & J vaccine. I do not draw my line in the same place. My line is closer to something that promotes abortion currently. Even President Bush's stem cell announcement (which no one remembers because it came a month before 9/11) allowed for federal funding of research using cell lines obtained from aborted fetuses in the distant past and if I remember right, that was widely accepted by pro-life people.

That being said, I have Novavax in me or will have and that has no such issues.

 

[JettaKnight]

And saying that ysing aborted fetuses is parallel to knocking over statues is civil?

Joe Mengala would be proud of you.

If you have a civil and cogent opinion on the issue, then make it.

Otherwise, take those sorts of snide remarks to Gen Pol section.


As to this issue, I really don't have a personal problem with J&J or other vaccines that are developed using cloned cells from events that took place over decades ago. I don't believe that me taking that vaccine is contributing or in any way promoting abortion.

I see the Catholic church doing what they do best - being Pharisaical. (IMHO, of course)

 

[2A_Tom]

If you have a civil and cogent opinion on the issue, then make it.

Otherwise, take those sorts of snide remarks to Gen Pol section.


As to this issue, I really don't have a personal problem with J&J or other vaccines that are developed using cloned cells from events that took place over decades ago. I don't believe that me taking that vaccine is contributing or in any way promoting abortion.

I see the Catholic church doing what they do best - being Pharisaical. (IMHO, of course)

Life is not a Political issue.

 

[T.Lex]

I think that the decision(s) regarding the vaccines, and any medical product derived from aborted stem cells, is a matter of informed conscience.

Just MHO.

 

[HoughMade]

I think that the decision(s) regarding the vaccines, and any medical product derived from aborted stem cells, is a matter of informed conscience.

Just MHO.

That's what I was getting at will less elegant language and more words.

 

[JettaKnight]

I think that the decision(s) regarding the vaccines, and any medical product derived from aborted stem cells, is a matter of informed conscience.

Just MHO.

Just like alcohol. And bacon. And dancing.

 

[foszoe]

I believe Bush outlawed use of new fetus material leaving only previously collected materials in play.

I also thought science had advanced to where it could now get fetus quality cells without fetus cells.

 

[JettaKnight]

I believe Bush outlawed use of new fetus material leaving only previously collected materials in play.

I also thought science had advanced to where it could now get fetus quality cells without fetus cells.

Sounds like that's the case.


"Fetal tissue can be used in biomedical research for transplantation material and other purposes, but is more often connected to the creation of “immortalized” cell lines. Immortalized cell lines are established by culturing fetal cells in such a way that they continue growing and multiplying in laboratory dishes indefinitely. These cells can then be used for such activities as testing a drug’s ability to damage genetic material or to test the effects of specific viral infection. "

Explainer: COVID-19 raises concern about abortive fetal cells in medicine

Several COVID-19 treatments and vaccines have come under scrutiny because their development included testing possibly using abortive fetal cells. Here is what you should know about the fetal tissue cells and the ethical concern about using them to develop therapeutics and vaccines. What are...

erlc.com

 

[JettaKnight]

And saying that ysing aborted fetuses is parallel to knocking over statues is civil?

Joe Mengala would be proud of you.

OK, I think I can address this now in a way that lays out a crude analogy as I see it.



A vaccine is developed based on cells that were cloned from an abortion(s) many decades ago.
Does that make it inherently immoral?

A university was founded by a prominent slave owner many (many) decades ago.
Does that make it inherently immoral?

 

[T.Lex]

Just like alcohol. And bacon. And dancing.

Put all 3 together, and that's one heck of a Mardi Gras!

 

[BugI02]

As to this issue, I really don't have a personal problem with J&J or other vaccines that are developed using cloned cells from events that took place over decades ago. I don't believe that me taking that vaccine is contributing or in any way promoting abortion.

So what is your opinion about german companies that willingly used jewish slave labor during The Two? After all, it was 'events that took place decades ago'

The point being that distance in the past has little bearing on certain issues and some things cannot be forgiven. To drink from a tainted well is to poison yourself

 

[T.Lex]

OK, I think I can address this now in a way that lays out a crude analogy as I see it.



A vaccine is developed based on cells that were cloned from an abortion(s) many decades ago.
Does that make it inherently immoral?

A university was founded by a prominent slave owner many (many) decades ago.
Does that make it inherently immoral?

At the risk of analogy-poking, as a society, we've eradicated slavery.

Mostly.

Not so much abortion.

In law, there's this idea of "fruit of a poisonous tree." That's similar to the idea about the abortion derived stem cells. That, even though the decision was made decades ago, the unexculpated moral fault still taints it.

But again, each of us has a God-given conscience to guide us. There is room for reasonable people to reach different conclusions on this.

 

[BugI02]

A vaccine is developed based on cells that were cloned from an abortion(s) many decades ago.
Does that make it inherently immoral?

'The gold was smelted from fillings gathered in The Shoah, does that make it inherently immoral?'

Wide is the gate and broad is the way

 

[JettaKnight]

So what is your opinion about german companies that willingly used jewish slave labor during The Two? After all, it was 'events that took place decades ago'

The point being that distance in the past has little bearing on certain issues and some things cannot be forgiven. To drink from a tainted well is to poison yourself

Are you asking if I drive a Volkswagen?
Are you asking if I agree with reparation?
Am I drinking from a tainted well by living in America?
I like Dan Levy's acting on Schitt's Creek... is that a well tainted with glitter?

In law, there's this idea of "fruit of a poisonous tree." That's similar to the idea about the abortion derived stem cells. That, even though the decision was made decades ago, the unexculpated moral fault still taints it.

But again, each of us has a God-given conscience to guide us. There is room for reasonable people to reach different conclusions on this.

That concept totally came to my mind.

If nothing else, this last year has taught me how be accepting and open of differences on issues and extending grace.