CIVIL RELIGIOUS DISCUSSION: All things Christianity

[T.Lex]

The prevailing argument is that the Hebrew word for "day" in Gen 1 is the same as in other places where it's obvious it is to be taken literally. Therefore, you must interpret it as 24 hrs.

To that I say, the word for "lion" in, "Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion", is the same word used in other places (e.g. David killing a lion)...

"...And the evening and the morning were the first day."

Evening is the Hebrew 'ereb or dusk

Morning is the Hebrew boqer or dawn

Day is the Hebrew yowm or from sunrise to sunset, or from one sunset to the next

Indeed, Hebrew is a rich and poetic language.

But this doesn't address what, to me, are obvious issues.
1) You didn't address the question of how there can be a "dusk" or "dawn" without a sun.

2) "Dusk" and "dawn" are unrelated, lexicographically, from a literal 24 hour day. Those words describe the setting and rising of a sun, whenever that occurs. Dusk and dawn, while currently timed at a bit more than 24 hrs. here on Earth, does not mean that has always been the case.

 

[JettaKnight]

Let it be known that I have an open mind:

My church is hosting a series of lectures from the organization Answers in Genesis.
It's open to anyone to come on Wednesday nights (N. Fort Wayne) in May and June.

STEP Into SUMMER ? Wallen.org

 

[ChristianPatriot]

1) They are the same exact words that are used after the fourth day. There's no reason to think they aren't literal unless you're trying to conform the Bible to some other standard.

2) Again, I think people are making an issue where there isn't one. Why would the Spirit move Moses to write down "day" if it wasn't a day? Did Moses not have a concept of numbers? He was born into one of the biggest empires in world history, pretty sure he could count higher than 10. Hundreds and thousands and millions are not new concepts. Was God being intentionally vague? Or do humans naturally try to wrest the scripture to fit what they want?

 

[hog slayer]

Gentlemen, I believe we may have screwed the pooch. I realize I incited the argument with the young-earth vs. Old Earth topic. So I will attempt to correct this. I will not speak to the owners versus old Earth argument for 48 hours in order that we may get back to the task of loving God comma loving people comma and bringing those two closer to each other. Now, let's see what Siri did to my effort.

 

[T.Lex]

1) They are the same exact words that are used after the fourth day. There's no reason to think they aren't literal unless you're trying to conform the Bible to some other standard.

That's kinda my point. If the words had a more poetic/miraculous nuance before day 4, they probably had the same nuance after.

2) Again, I think people are making an issue where there isn't one. Why would the Spirit move Moses to write down "day" if it wasn't a day? Did Moses not have a concept of numbers? He was born into one of the biggest empires in world history, pretty sure he could count higher than 10. Hundreds and thousands and millions are not new concepts. Was God being intentionally vague? Or do humans naturally try to wrest the scripture to fit what they want?

Have you read much of the history of numbers? There's a good book about zero:
https://www.amazon.com/Zero-Biography-Dangerous-Charles-Seife/dp/0140296476

Do not think that our modern conception of numbers, or even how to think about numbers, is the same as what Moses had. Without meaning to, your comment about having scripture fit what you want is ironic.

God revealed - and continues to reveal - Himself in ways that can be understood in the "current" epoch. Hebrew did not have words for the astrological or evolutionary ideas that we are familiar with. What was written was what was understood.

 

[foszoe]

Scriptural infallibility....Born on date 19th century. Muslims had it long before Christians

 

[T.Lex]

Have you read much of the history of numbers? There's a good book about zero:
https://www.amazon.com/Zero-Biography-Dangerous-Charles-Seife/dp/0140296476

Do not think that our modern conception of numbers, or even how to think about numbers, is the same as what Moses had. Without meaning to, your comment about having scripture fit what you want is ironic.

God revealed - and continues to reveal - Himself in ways that can be understood in the "current" epoch. Hebrew did not have words for the astrological or evolutionary ideas that we are familiar with. What was written was what was understood.

Sorry for the somewhat narcissistic self-quote, but here's a site with a good overview of certain concepts.

https://www.brainpickings.org/2017/02/02/zero-robert-kaplan/

Importantly, it also raises the idea that ideas are limited to the available words of the thinker. An idea without a corresponding descriptive word is... nothing. The human framework of language limits ideas to that which is known. God, without that limiting framework, is artificially limited by human understanding.

He conveys truths, which we must then "translate" into our limited understanding.

 

[rvb]

interesting read:
Word Study Yom
I'm no Hebrew scholar, so can't vouch for any validity. But a day as a period of time in Gen 1 context is my interpretation.
-rvb

 

[rvb]

Let it be known that I have an open mind:

My church is hosting a series of lectures from the organization Answers in Genesis.
It's open to anyone to come on Wednesday nights (N. Fort Wayne) in May and June.

STEP Into SUMMER ? Wallen.org

I'll keep that in mind! Thanks!
-rvb

 

[hog slayer]

Scriptural infallibility....Born on date 19th century. Muslims had it long before Christians

This I do not follow.

 

[indiucky]

Let it be known that I have an open mind:

My church is hosting a series of lectures from the organization Answers in Genesis.
It's open to anyone to come on Wednesday nights (N. Fort Wayne) in May and June.

STEP Into SUMMER ? Wallen.org

Thought you might dig these Brother....

[video=youtube;s3uUAgyJfNo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3uUAgyJfNo[/video]

[video=youtube;yMwtudv3Kq0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMwtudv3Kq0[/video]

 

[T.Lex]

Ironic, or coincidental, story.

First Americans claim sparks controversy - BBC News

 

[historian]

I'ma just gonna drop these articles here and make all you all read them.

D.A. Carson on what's important: A Theology of Creation in 12 Points | Desiring God

Really long read on "Historical Creationism": Science, the Bible, and the Promised Land | Desiring God

 

[JettaKnight]

Thought you might dig these Brother....

[video=youtube;s3uUAgyJfNo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3uUAgyJfNo[/video]

THIS MAKES SO MUCH SENSE!!!


Reading Gen 1 literally just made me ask so many questions, like, "how did the sea not freeze without the heat from the non-existant sun?"

When you can throw off that shackle then you can start to see why the sun and moon don't appear till later! It makes so much more sense - I can stop questioning and start worshiping!


It's all about glorifying the Creator, not explaining his methods.

 

[SwikLS]

Luke 22: 35-36

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke 22:35-36

for anyone looking for scripture on self defense and the bearing of arms.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Agreed.

THIS MAKES SO MUCH SENSE!!!


Reading Gen 1 literally just made me ask so many questions, like, "how did the sea not freeze without the heat from the non-existant sun?"

When you can throw off that shackle then you can start to see why the sun and moon don't appear till later! It makes so much more sense - I can stop questioning and start worshiping!


It's all about glorifying the Creator, not explaining his methods.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Thought you might dig these Brother....

[video=youtube;yMwtudv3Kq0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMwtudv3Kq0[/video]

I love listening to Lennox. Just in the first few minutes he's talking about why we're not all "fixed earthers". The bible doesn't say the earth orbits the sun but is fixed on its foundations. So, are you a fixed earther or a moving earther?

 

[ATM]

I love listening to Lennox. Just in the first few minutes he's talking about why we're not all "fixed earthers". The bible doesn't say the earth orbits the sun but is fixed on its foundations. So, are you a fixed earther or a moving earther?

I'll take the position of fixed earther, just for the exercise.

 

[SSGSAD]

I have not read this whole thread, so I don't know if this has been mentioned .....

I heard on the radio, the other day, that an atheist, was going to prove his

girlfriend wrong, that God, and Jesus, did not exist .....

Guess what happened, the more research he did, the more he became

convinced, and guess what, he is now a Christian .....

How about that !!!!!

 

[Jludo]

I have not read this whole thread, so I don't know if this has been mentioned .....

I heard on the radio, the other day, that an atheist, was going to prove his

girlfriend wrong, that God, and Jesus, did not exist .....

Guess what happened, the more research he did, the more he became

convinced, and guess what, he is now a Christian .....

How about that !!!!!

Lee Strobel? Would you recommend his works to someone? My mom keeps pushing him on me but from everything else I've read he doesn't make a good apologetic case.