Circle Center to "randomly" screen people through metal detecters

[MikeDVB]

They are not "randomly" stopping people. We are looking for gangbangers and once we identify them we have RS for a terry stop/patdown. Wanding is a more efficient method. We know our jobs even if the news doesn't.

I'm not doubting that you know your job, but merely trying to understand it from an outsider's perspective.

The end result, if I were to get stopped, would be me refusing the search and simply leaving the premises. Simply having a firearm on me (which is what you suspect) isn't illegal and even if you did see it print or knew I had it - I'd provide you my LTCH and be on my way (even if that meant leaving to avoid trespass).

The end result, no matter how you slice it, is me leaving and not spending any money there.

That being said, I look about as far from a 'gang banger' or 'thug' as humanly possible so I doubt I would have issues either way.

 

[Hammerhead]

The Mall doesn't need any RS or PC to wand or search. It's private property and they can require you consent to any kind of search to enter. Whether they have any reason or not.

Kind of like the TSA, but big business instead of big government.

Please, counselor, point out where the public city owned property and the private property separate at Circle Center.

I'll wait.

 

[TTravis]

I drove up Illinois Street as I do every Monday at the same time, around 7:00 PM, and the entire intersection at CC was completely void of people. I've never seen it like that before. Granted, there was a game going on at the Field House, but there was nobody at all at CC.

 

[MikeDVB]

Too tired, I'll make a good response later.

 

[jon5212]

I'm not doubting that you know your job, but merely trying to understand it from an outsider's perspective.

The end result, if I were to get stopped, would be me refusing the search and simply leaving the premises. Simply having a firearm on me (which is what you suspect) isn't illegal and even if you did see it print or knew I had it - I'd provide you my LTCH and be on my way (even if that meant leaving to avoid trespass).

The end result, no matter how you slice it, is me leaving and not spending any money there.

That being said, I look about as far from a 'gang banger' or 'thug' as humanly possible so I doubt I would have issues either way.

Can't be trespassed on public property

I'll edit this, as yes per the silly law about private corporations on public property. But my opinion is public property is public property period. I had thread a couple years ago about the ribfest wanting to search hand bags and persons. I politely told them to shove it.

 

[MikeDVB]

I remember reading an IC saying that they could search everybody as a condition of entry, but could not do it selectively but for the life of me cannot find it again.... Uggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. It was legal so long as you had the option to leave without being searched... Hopefully I'm not losing it here.

 

[INgunowner]

I would go just to be profiled, I have always wondered what it feels like to be selected for harassment based solely on someones ignorant, paranoid, and/or uneducated view of the world.

 

[MikeDVB]

I would go just to be profiled, I have always wondered what it feels like to be selected for harassment based solely on someones ignorant, paranoid, and/or uneducated view of the world.

Nice username, btw.

 

[Regnar]

What, no LEO's or lawyers to help us out on this?
Just the facts ma'am.

 

[Denny347]

What, no LEO's or lawyers to help us out on this?
Just the facts ma'am.

Ummm, I've been replying but no one seems to be listening.

 

[Denny347]

I would go just to be profiled, I have always wondered what it feels like to be selected for harassment based solely on someones ignorant, paranoid, and/or uneducated view of the world.

Maybe I need to use bigger print as it looks like people can't read. We are looking for bangers. Those are the ones giving us the most problems. Bangers are identified by colors and tats. Bangers like to be armed. We like to unarm bangers. If you are not a banger, you're golden. How many times do I have to say this? We are not looking for customers of the mall. Bangers are not customers. If you want to get "profiled", dress/act accordingly.

 

[MrsGungho]

Maybe I need to use bigger print as it looks like people can't read. We are looking for bangers. Those are the ones giving us the most problems. Bangers are identified by colors and tats. Bangers like to be armed. We like to unarm bangers. If you are not a banger, you're golden. How many times do I have to say this? We are not looking for customers of the mall. Bangers are not customers. If you want to get "profiled", dress/act accordingly.

if they listened to you, they would have nothing to complain about

 

[churchmouse]

Maybe I need to use bigger print as it looks like people can't read. We are looking for bangers. Those are the ones giving us the most problems. Bangers are identified by colors and tats. Bangers like to be armed. We like to unarm bangers. If you are not a banger, you're golden. How many times do I have to say this? We are not looking for customers of the mall. Bangers are not customers. If you want to get "profiled", dress/act accordingly.

Stated up thread....wear the uniform....pay the price.
Stay home or act accordingly.

Some are listening.

Some just like to stir the pile.

 

[churchmouse]

I'm not doubting that you know your job, but merely trying to understand it from an outsider's perspective.

The end result, if I were to get stopped, would be me refusing the search and simply leaving the premises. Simply having a firearm on me (which is what you suspect) isn't illegal and even if you did see it print or knew I had it - I'd provide you my LTCH and be on my way (even if that meant leaving to avoid trespass).

The end result, no matter how you slice it, is me leaving and not spending any money there.

That being said, I look about as far from a 'gang banger' or 'thug' as humanly possible so I doubt I would have issues either way.

Depending on who was on the door and they saw you "Print" would be the question. Banger or not.

 

[TTravis]

Maybe I need to use bigger print as it looks like people can't read. We are looking for bangers. Those are the ones giving us the most problems. Bangers are identified by colors and tats. Bangers like to be armed. We like to unarm bangers. If you are not a banger, you're golden. How many times do I have to say this? We are not looking for customers of the mall. Bangers are not customers. If you want to get "profiled", dress/act accordingly.

Colours and tats.... What about Pants on the Ground? Oh yea, I forgot, if they have Pants on the Ground, you know they are not packing!

 

[MikeDVB]

Maybe I need to use bigger print as it looks like people can't read. We are looking for bangers. Those are the ones giving us the most problems. Bangers are identified by colors and tats. Bangers like to be armed. We like to unarm bangers. If you are not a banger, you're golden. How many times do I have to say this? We are not looking for customers of the mall. Bangers are not customers. If you want to get "profiled", dress/act accordingly.

I hear you fine, I'm just trying to understand the underlying details is all. I'm a cracker and there is no mistaking that!

 

[Denny347]

Colours and tats.... What about Pants on the Ground? Oh yea, I forgot, if they have Pants on the Ground, you know they are not packing!

Oh, they pack while sagging. Watch their hands and you can see.

 

[cobber]

No, I retain 100% LEO powers off-duty. Your OPINION might be that we lose LEO powers working off-duty but we do not. I can wander off-duty in the mall and arrest someone if warranted.

You can wander off-duty all you like and arrest.

So if you make an unconstitutional arrest as a mall employee, how does the doctrine of respondeat superior (let the superior answer) apply? Is the employer the one violating the right, since you're working as his agent? But employers, being private actors, cannot violate Constitutional rights.

Sounds like a license to violate rights. Hire police to act both as police and agents, and then raise the defense of 'not a state action' when it goes too far.

Is gang-banger garb RS for a Terry Stop? What if someone gives you a dirty look, also RS?

 

[Denny347]

You can wander off-duty all you like and arrest.

So if you make an unconstitutional arrest as a mall employee, how does the doctrine of respondeat superior (let the superior answer) apply? Is the employer the one violating the right, since you're working as his agent? But employers, being private actors, cannot violate Constitutional rights.

Sounds like a license to violate rights. Hire police to act both as police and agents, and then raise the defense of 'not a state action' when it goes too far.

Is gang-banger garb RS for a Terry Stop? What if someone gives you a dirty look, also RS?

There is no such defense as "not a state action" when taking police action. Our authority is given by the state...to use it it MUST be a state action. Working off-duty for Conseco, Lucas Oil Stadium, Circle Center, bars, clubs, restaurants, local little league...etc, does not allow us to violate the law. While private security at the mall MAY be able to search w/o RS, the LEO cannot regardless of who is paying him/her. I would like to see a case where an officer was using the "not a state action" as a defense. Well, since gang activity is illegal that is enough for Terry. Anyone who knows anything about gangs can spot a banger a mile away. Clothing, tatoos, hand signs, etc. They advertise the fact, it's not rocket science.

 

[TTravis]

Oh, they pack while sagging. Watch their hands and you can see.

You know better than I on that. One thing I noticed is they do not sag nearly as much when they are outside in colder temps.