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Another Mass Shooter Addicted to Marijuana | Liz Wheeler Show Ep. 169
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Timjoebillybob
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- Feb 27, 2009
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Unfortunately for some reason I can't get that site to open. But I have to call BS on the potency, yes I've seen what they claim to be the difference. But saying the potency is a driving force, is like saying drinking 18 ABV wine will cause a person to become an alcoholic faster or they are more likely to become one than if the person was drinking 4.5 ABV beer.
May. They don't know. There is a definite correlation between a certain expression of the ATK1 gene, heavy cannabis use, and schizophrenia. But they don't know why, they don't know if the use drives the schizophrenia or vise versa. Or possibly neither. I posted a few studies earlier in this thread I'll copy the post with them below.
Adolescent cannabis use is considered a risk factor schizophrenia. 50% of schizophrenics had adolescent use, but what percentage of kids between 10-19 use marijuana.
There is the psychosocial aspect also which is one of the possibilities of the "other" listed above. How your environment effects your psychology. Childhood sexual abuse is a risk factor in schizophrenia as well, a higher percentage of those that experienced abuse become schizophrenic compared to the general population. Growing up urban vs rural. Rural has a lower incidence. The reason I included that in the other listed above for the correlation is it could be something in their social environment that is driving both. Which of the groups do you think would be more likely to use, kids who have been sexually abuse or those that haven't? I'd put my money on those who have and use it to help cope aka self medicating.
I read a study that was in a "article" posted earlier that was interesting. It was about violence and schizophrenia. And rate of schizophrenic vs general pop, schizophrenics had a higher rate of committing violence and schizophrenics with substance abuse disorder had a much higher rate. What was really interesting was they separated out schizophrenics with unaffected full siblings who presumably grew up together in the same environment into their own group. The schizophrenics that used, their siblings also had a much higher rate of committing violence. Here is that study.
Schizophrenia, Substance Abuse, and Violent Crime
Context Persons with schizophrenia are thought to be at increased risk of committing violent crime 4 to 6 times the level of general population individuals without this disorder. However, risk estimates vary substantially across studies, and considerable uncertainty exists as to what mediates...
jamanetwork.com
Yet another possibility is that they are self medicating the schizophrenia. And there are other possibilities as well.
All that to say, they don't know.
Why? I can only answer for myself but I can be extremely truthful on the 4473 and I am. And never been denied.
There are multiple studies that link heavy adolescent use of MJ with psychosis/schizophrenia especially in those with a certain variation of the ATK1 gene. Which drives which is the question, and that question hasn't been answered definitively. And it's possible neither and both are caused by seperate things. I'll say I don't know for sure but do accept the possibility of either. But research has shown that MJ use by itself doesn't cause it. They have also found a link between psychosis and being a victim of child sexual abuse and also one with growing up urban vs rural. That one is interesting they have no idea if growing up urban is a causative factor or if rural is a preventative factor or possibly both.
I'll link a couple of studies if you would like to read them. Yes a couple are on a .gov but they aren't .gov funded or produced. They are basically a library/warehouse for med articles.
Cannabis and psychosis: Neurobiology
Cannabis is a known risk factor for schizophrenia, although the exact neurobiological process through which the effects on psychosis occur is not well-understood. In this review, we attempt to develop and discuss a possible pathway for the development ...www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Cannabis and Psychosis: Recent Epidemiological Findings Continuing the “Causality Debate” | American Journal of Psychiatry
PsychiatryOnline.org is the platform for all American Psychiatric Association Publishing journals, DSM, and bestselling textbooks, as well as APA Practice Guidelines, and continuing medical education.ajp.psychiatryonline.org
Is there a link between marijuana use and psychiatric disorders? | National Institute on Drug Abuse
Several studies have linked marijuana use to increased risk for psychiatric disorders, including psychosis (schizophrenia), depression, anxiety, and substance use disorders, but whether and to what extent it actually causes these conditions is not always easy to determine.nida.nih.gov
slight correction. Racism was the vehicle they used, a lot of it was driven by Dupont and Hearst and the govt. Dupont was hemp rope vs their new polymer nylon rope, Hearst had huge tracts of pulp wood that wasn't good for much except paper and was afraid of the competition, and the govt with legalization of alcohol after the 21st Am had bunches of g-men without much to do.
I partied with a large group of guys back in my late teens and early 20's. I saw all of their lives starting to slide down a dark hole, especially one guy who also got addicted to cocaine. I had stayed gainfully employed and mostly partied on the weekends, but when I started partying on work nights I knew it was time to reign it in. When I turned 25 I went the entire year without getting high or drinking any alcohol. After that I started socially drinking again for the occasional light buzz. I think I've actually gotten drunk only a handful of times since. Mostly it's a drink or two a couple nights a week to wind down, usually a beer or two, or the aforementioned margarita. I don't really have a desire to try pot again. Maybe some really low THC edibles if it ever becomes legal here, but that would be it. I know people that get them and use them as sleep aids that don't cause drowsiness the next day. That would be nice since I suffer from occasional insomnia.
Correlation does not equal causation.....but it's definitely a disturbing trend. Maybe ultra high doses(think edibles)is uncovering or triggering a preexisting mental condition..... maybe the evil weed is making people crazy.
I'm feeling like high doses of marijuana can potentially trigger a schizophrenic break in someone predisposed to have one. The increase in people exposed to marijuana products via the changing of state laws has simply exposed more people who are predisposed to schizophrenia to marijuana, just my opinion. It's a huge leap from joint to mass shooter, a lot has to be wrong in between.
I definitely don't support marijuana or alcohol usage before the prefrontal cortex is fully formed(21-25)as it can have detrimental effects. That's pretty much universally accepted but not often practiced.
I'm feeling like high doses of marijuana can potentially trigger a schizophrenic break in someone predisposed to have one. The increase in people exposed to marijuana products via the changing of state laws has simply exposed more people who are predisposed to schizophrenia to marijuana, just my opinion. It's a huge leap from joint to mass shooter, a lot has to be wrong in between.
I definitely don't support marijuana or alcohol usage before the prefrontal cortex is fully formed(21-25)as it can have detrimental effects. That's pretty much universally accepted but not often practiced.
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Timjoebillybob
Grandmaster
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Edibles have been around for a long time. Just usually home made so less quality control and a better chance of getting a dose larger than you expected. Think pot brownies which have been around since the '60s. There has been a known correlation between cannabis and schizophrenia for a while. That is the first study I've seen that says causation is "plausible", one of the metastudies I linked in this thread mentioned the same thing. Everyone else is
. About 50% of schizophrenics per the one study have used cannabis, which is near the same % as the population at large... Heavy adolescent use seems to bring it out earlier.About the only time I would support adolescent or younger use would be for legitimate medical treatment. There is a trademarked/copyrighted not quite sure what to call it, I guess varietal? It's called Charlotte's Web, if you've never heard of it you might want to look it up.
Robert Richardson
Master
- Jan 28, 2009
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I think more lives have been destroyed by legal drugs like alcohol and pain meds than than weed.
The Bubba Effect
Grandmaster
Also check out Haley's Hope.Edibles have been around for a long time. Just usually home made so less quality control and a better chance of getting a dose larger than you expected. Think pot brownies which have been around since the '60s. There has been a known correlation between cannabis and schizophrenia for a while. That is the first study I've seen that says causation is "plausible", one of the metastudies I linked in this thread mentioned the same thing. Everyone else is
About the only time I would support adolescent or younger use would be for legitimate medical treatment. There is a trademarked/copyrighted not quite sure what to call it, I guess varietal? It's called Charlotte's Web, if you've never heard of it you might want to look it up.
In southpark they make a rescue inhaler that saves lives.
Timjoebillybob
Grandmaster
- Feb 27, 2009
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Yep, kids like that are why I say legit medical reasons for adolescents and younger. 200 seizures a day down to 1? I don't care if they are token down more than Willy, Snoop, Cheech and Chong combined. And yes I know they don't toke down. This one contains a good bit more THC (way more up to 5% vs .3%) than Charlotte's but I don't really give a rat's ***, if it works for them, it works.
Which is why the Feds need to remove it from schedule 1. They actually approved a CBD pill made by big pharma for ages down to 2, they approved marinol, and a couple of others. But it has no medical value? Please. Hell the feds own patents on it's medical use.
I'll be honest, if it was legalized state and fed I'd probably use on occasion. Same as I do with alcohol now. But it's stories like this one that really hit home.
ETA Don't know if he's a D or R but the Representative that she reached out to seems to care for his constituents.
VERIFY: Is Rep. Allen Peake violating cannabis law?
Federal law prohibits taking any form of marijuana across state lines, and right now, there's nowhere to buy it in Georgia.
www.13wmaz.com
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Timjoebillybob
Grandmaster
- Feb 27, 2009
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Well let's say all mass shooters were in a cannabis fueled rage, compare the numbers killed by them to just drunk drivers.
What I got from the article was a strong statistical correlation to psychoses among heavy, frequent users. Does every very frequent drinker become an alcoholic? No. However, heavy drinking induces alcoholism in those with a predilection to it. That's what I believe is operative here. Frequent use of high THC content Cannabis induces psychoses sooner and with stronger presentation in those with a predilection to it. There are other common factors in these incidents which include broken dysfunctional families. The "If --> Then" in these factors need not be bi-directional (If <--> Then). It's the 20/20 hindsight that reveals them. Not everyone from even a badly broken dysfunctional family becomes a killer, or even violent. I see the uncontrolled rage and other violent behaviors such as the young women who caused tens of thousands of dollars damage to a French fry restaurant in NYC while spectators danced and recorded it on their cell phones and wonder what leads to it - and the perpetrators believing it's acceptable.
John
I think that is an issue with that segment of society more so than pot use, but I suppose it could be a combination of things.
Then using that logic, we need to ban flu shots. Thousands die every year from complications. Sure it’s a small number, but think of the lives we would save by banning them!
Alcohol is alcohol. To an alcoholic, it matters not what form it comes in.
Timjoebillybob
Grandmaster
- Feb 27, 2009
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Oh, most definitely. But what I was talking about is those with a genetic predisposition to become an alcoholic. For those with that predisposition does it matter if they are getting drunk on beer, wine, or hard alcohol on whether they become an alcoholic. There is correlation between heavy adolescent use and earlier onset of schizophrenia. Cause is unknown, there is a very wide range of possibilities. JAL is linking it in part at least to THC content. Which is why my question regarding ABV and onset of alcoholism in those with a genetic predisposition.
No it doesn't. I think we're both on the same page here. Think of it (alcoholism) as an allergy. Some folks can use it in moderation, and with no adverse affects. An alcoholic will take that first sip, then the next, and the next, and the "allergy" kicks in and then there's no stopping without a major change in the individual.
I know the popular opinion is that it's just a matter of willpower, but there's more to it than that. Has to do with the wiring in the brain, and some folks just aren't wired exactly right. And I don't mean that in the same manner that I do when I talk about liberals.
