Agenda: Grinding America Down

[Never A Victim]

The reason there should be no socialist healthcare plans is simple. It actually comes down to modern darwinism. If you worked hard, saved your money, lived a healthy life, and didn't come into some unforseen accident, you can afford healthcare. If you were not successful, didn't live healthy, squandered your money, you die because of not being able to afford healthcare. Survival of the fittest for the betterment of society. It is the same reason we don't want stupid people breeding.

THIS.

 

[atheist-gun-toter]

Oh I understand the biblical stuff, and that is what your community and your church is for. The government should not be a part of feeding, clothing, sheltering, or healing anyone. And no, no one has to flip my burgers, I don't eat fast food, and I am perfectly capable of making hamburgers myself. And just because the dude who can't afford a family wants one, doesn't mean he should have one. It is selfish to bring a child into the world when you can't afford to take care of the child yourself.

oh well lets work grandma into the grave. oh well single mom was laid off sorry hun might as well blow your brains out you lost the game. oh hurricane Katrina flooded your city get a boat. oh child born disease sorry you lost before you started. hey veteran you left the army healthy so you're on your own. hey guy who lost his job house and no family. get you a nice cup to jingle some change in. here is one. politicians you're out of office and receive health care for life sorry that's over now. hey I'm not worried I have great insurance. people less fortunate sorry better luck next time. if we can give oil companies land and money, give Israel billions a year, spend billions lobbying and campaigning, say survival of the fittest but invade every country we can and cannot provide for our own that's pitiful. lets completely deregulate everything. bet that would go great.

 

[EvilElmo]

I'm going make an attempt at these one at a time:

I can appreciate some socialistic aspect such as caring for the sick and poor and giving to those in need. Isnt that what every person should expect.

No, it's what everyone should hope for. There's a difference between people giving their time, labor, and money to help those less fortunate and having the government steal it from you for that supposed purpose against your will. The idea that the all-powerful government is somehow a better judge of what to do with your property is laughable and has been disproven by the history of every communist/socialist/fascist government that's ever existed. Just take a look at history.

Having people dependent on the government just to get by or to heal them when they're sick isn't noble or caring in any possible way. Making them helpless and left to suckle on the government teat beats them down mentally over time. It slowly robs them of the drive and ability to take care of themselves. Benjamin Franklin warned of that very problem in the early days of the nation. It ultimately has the effect of creating exactly what we have in this country today - a permanent underclass. We see it in 4th and 5th generation kids on welfare who have no concept of what it means to take care of themselves as adults because not even their grandparents had to do it. Being dependent on government checks is all they've ever known. Broke is a temporary financial setback, poor is state of mind. The socialistic concepts of how to help the poor do nothing but keep them poor. They make it easier and more comfortable to live in poverty. I don't want it to be easy to be poor. I want it to suck so that it inspires people to lift themselves out of it!

Plus, this completely ignores the fact that there's a real difference between health insurance and health care. Health insurance is useless without doctors/nurses/etc to provide the care. Claiming that a person has a right to health care is no different than saying I have a right to the labor of others (those same doctors/nurses). No one, for any reason, has a right to the labor of another. There's a term for that - slavery.

Being a godless government is in our constitution. The US was born of a secular belief without such we would be an Iran.

This couldn't be more false. Have you ever read the other writings of the founding fathers on the matter? Just because they didn't want an individual state or the federal government forcing a single flavor of religion on the people does NOT mean they wanted a godless government. The very concept of a free republic is wholly dependent on a moral people doing the things they should, instead of doing the things that form of government will let them get away with. Without that religious moral compass those people, and the government they elect, start to slide down the slope to collapse. We're watching it happen in this country every day. And it's a concerted, intentional effort. They have to destroy the idea that the people who run the government are beholden to a set of rules greater than the ones they dream up to benefit themselves. In order to sell the idea that the government is supreme they have to first destroy the idea that there is a God.

I believe capitalism can work but it has to have regulation so that everyone plays fair. When they dont play fair we get great depressions and recessions. When people can spend money to persuade legislation in their favor how does that seem to pan out for the regular Americans needs and wants? Get the greedy money out of politics and keep Wall St and the banks regulated to play fair and uphold values that will not cripple us again 60 years down the road and I think it may actually pan out.

I believe you're absolutely right - everyone should play fair and by the same set of rules. But that includes the government as well as the private sector. We get depressions and recessions when the government manipulates markets and the money supply. The housing problems came about because the government stuck their collective noses in and messed things up, forcing banks to loan to people who wouldn't be able to repay the loans by any objective measure of their income and credit history. A large glut of new buyers in turn drove up the prices, which in turn requires bigger loans to people who won't be able to repay them. And then, wouldn't you know it, after the house of cards collapses the government comes riding to the rescue with bailouts and more regulation. The people got screwed and the government got bigger, and the government caused it all in the first place. Not that this scenario is anything new - it's par for the course for those who favor growing the government. Never let a crisis go to waste - especially the ones you create.

I stand by my longtime assessment that no matter what the problem, more government is almost never the answer. Regulation is a mild form of central-planning, and central-planning doesn't work.
[/QUOTE]

Why isnt a minimum wage reflective of what it takes to pay the bills?

Maybe because some jobs aren't worth paying $7.25/hour? Nowhere in history has anyone been guaranteed a living wage for doing whatever job they want to do. Just because I decide I want to mow lawns for 5 hours/week doesn't mean I deserve enough money for it to buy myself a house.

And besides that, it doesn't do any good in the long run. When minimum wage is increased employers have to pass that added cost on to customers. That raises prices and puts the people working for minimum wage right back in same position before long. But it also drags the rest of us down a little bit too because now we're paying more for everything as well. It's self-defeating and ultimately ends up hurting more than those it's supposed to help.

Why shouldn't everyone have access to healthcare without prejudice?

While I can agree with the part about prejudice the rest of it misses the mark slightly. People should have the right to seek out healthcare without prejudice, but that doesn't give them the right to that care because receiving that care requires labor from another. See my earlier comments about insurance vs care.

Capitalism certainly isn't perfect - nothing created by mere humans ever will be. But that doesn't change the fact that history has proven capitalism, coupled with individual liberty and a free market, to be the greatest uplifting force the world has ever seen. It may not be perfect, but I'll take it in a heartbeat over the alternatives.

 

[fishbass62]

Evil-Elmo, 99% right. For Atheist-gun-toter, why did they spend so much time praying in congress in the early years of our Nation if God wasn't important? Ya'll might enjoy this video: Jon Voight

 

[sadclownwp]

oh well lets work grandma into the grave. oh well single mom was laid off sorry hun might as well blow your brains out you lost the game. oh hurricane Katrina flooded your city get a boat. oh child born disease sorry you lost before you started. hey veteran you left the army healthy so you're on your own. hey guy who lost his job house and no family. get you a nice cup to jingle some change in. here is one. politicians you're out of office and receive health care for life sorry that's over now. hey I'm not worried I have great insurance. people less fortunate sorry better luck next time. if we can give oil companies land and money, give Israel billions a year, spend billions lobbying and campaigning, say survival of the fittest but invade every country we can and cannot provide for our own that's pitiful. lets completely deregulate everything. bet that would go great.

See now you understand the way the world is supposed to work, was that so hard.

 

[actaeon277]

I'm going make an attempt at these one at a time:



No, it's what everyone should hope for. There's a difference between people giving their time, labor, and money to help those less fortunate and having the government steal it from you for that supposed purpose against your will. The idea that the all-powerful government is somehow a better judge of what to do with your property is laughable and has been disproven by the history of every communist/socialist/fascist government that's ever existed. Just take a look at history.

Having people dependent on the government just to get by or to heal them when they're sick isn't noble or caring in any possible way. Making them helpless and left to suckle on the government teat beats them down mentally over time. It slowly robs them of the drive and ability to take care of themselves. Benjamin Franklin warned of that very problem in the early days of the nation. It ultimately has the effect of creating exactly what we have in this country today - a permanent underclass. We see it in 4th and 5th generation kids on welfare who have no concept of what it means to take care of themselves as adults because not even their grandparents had to do it. Being dependent on government checks is all they've ever known. Broke is a temporary financial setback, poor is state of mind. The socialistic concepts of how to help the poor do nothing but keep them poor. They make it easier and more comfortable to live in poverty. I don't want it to be easy to be poor. I want it to suck so that it inspires people to lift themselves out of it!

Plus, this completely ignores the fact that there's a real difference between health insurance and health care. Health insurance is useless without doctors/nurses/etc to provide the care. Claiming that a person has a right to health care is no different than saying I have a right to the labor of others (those same doctors/nurses). No one, for any reason, has a right to the labor of another. There's a term for that - slavery.




This couldn't be more false. Have you ever read the other writings of the founding fathers on the matter? Just because they didn't want an individual state or the federal government forcing a single flavor of religion on the people does NOT mean they wanted a godless government. The very concept of a free republic is wholly dependent on a moral people doing the things they should, instead of doing the things that form of government will let them get away with. Without that religious moral compass those people, and the government they elect, start to slide down the slope to collapse. We're watching it happen in this country every day. And it's a concerted, intentional effort. They have to destroy the idea that the people who run the government are beholden to a set of rules greater than the ones they dream up to benefit themselves. In order to sell the idea that the government is supreme they have to first destroy the idea that there is a God.



I believe you're absolutely right - everyone should play fair and by the same set of rules. But that includes the government as well as the private sector. We get depressions and recessions when the government manipulates markets and the money supply. The housing problems came about because the government stuck their collective noses in and messed things up, forcing banks to loan to people who wouldn't be able to repay the loans by any objective measure of their income and credit history. A large glut of new buyers in turn drove up the prices, which in turn requires bigger loans to people who won't be able to repay them. And then, wouldn't you know it, after the house of cards collapses the government comes riding to the rescue with bailouts and more regulation. The people got screwed and the government got bigger, and the government caused it all in the first place. Not that this scenario is anything new - it's par for the course for those who favor growing the government. Never let a crisis go to waste - especially the ones you create.

I stand by my longtime assessment that no matter what the problem, more government is almost never the answer. Regulation is a mild form of central-planning, and central-planning doesn't work.

Maybe because some jobs aren't worth paying $7.25/hour? Nowhere in history has anyone been guaranteed a living wage for doing whatever job they want to do. Just because I decide I want to mow lawns for 5 hours/week doesn't mean I deserve enough money for it to buy myself a house.

And besides that, it doesn't do any good in the long run. When minimum wage is increased employers have to pass that added cost on to customers. That raises prices and puts the people working for minimum wage right back in same position before long. But it also drags the rest of us down a little bit too because now we're paying more for everything as well. It's self-defeating and ultimately ends up hurting more than those it's supposed to help.




While I can agree with the part about prejudice the rest of it misses the mark slightly. People should have the right to seek out healthcare without prejudice, but that doesn't give them the right to that care because receiving that care requires labor from another. See my earlier comments about insurance vs care.

Capitalism certainly isn't perfect - nothing created by mere humans ever will be. But that doesn't change the fact that history has proven capitalism, coupled with individual liberty and a free market, to be the greatest uplifting force the world has ever seen. It may not be perfect, but I'll take it in a heartbeat over the alternatives.[/QUOTE]


Repp'd.
I agree with this.
Since the war on poverty, how much poverty have we eliminated???
I don't mind helping a man out who loses his job, but is looking for another.
But paying for years and years? No.
And if you can get a place to live, some food, healthcare, and a phone?
Why work?
Those are the reasons most work.

 

[Hawkeye]

A real eye-opener regarding those who surround Obama. A must see before you vote in the upcoming election.

Dang! I already voted for Regime Change on Saturday! Nothing like early voitng...