I am starting to smell Russian rabble rousing....
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo...edy-unfolds-russian-agents-sow-discord-online
I honestly am surprised that people would question the motives of survivors, after so recent a tragedy. I really am. I think their passion is understandable, and heartfelt, regardless of whether or not I agree with their logic.
That's fair. I wouldn't call what they're using logic though. You said it. It's passion. If it were logic, the conversation would sound much colder. That doesn't mean the people making the logical arguments are cold. But a logical, objective conversation, generally sounds much different from an emotional one. Right now, and not surprisingly, we're mostly hearing the emotional side of the conversation. And after something like this, it's normal for people to talk emotionally about this. It's a horrible thing that happened. An emotional response is expected.
However, it's unfortunate that we have to try to bring in reason at a stage where we're still in morning, when we just want to be emotional as we try to process what happened. But because of emotional attacks from people who manipulate the natural emotion of the circumstances, to push an ideological outcome, we have to be put on the defensive. And that means we have to try to bring logic and reason into it, because we're the side which will lose in such an outcome. We feel we have to engage an emotional argument with a logical one.
I wouldn't say that the victims are being coached, at least not in this moment. But they are being paraded in front of cameras a very one-sided way. The pro-gun side is not fairly represented because the other side is more interested in an ideological outcome than the reasoned one. And I'm not saying they're being paraded involuntarily. But once again, after such a tragedy, we're not having "a national conversation" about what happened. We're being lectured about what horrible people we are for not agreeing to the emotional solution over the logical one. The victims are are being used to help ensure the conversation is a 24/7 rebuke of people who disagree with the solution.
They call us horrible for daring to say that the real problem is not guns; that the real cause of mass shootings is a society that is producing too many people who are willing of doing this kind of thing, and a media which is hell bent on perpetuating the enticing reward of eternal fame for such people.
So what I think I've seen you say several times is that even though the people...we'll use the latest Crazy as an example...made suggestions on the 'net that they were going to do or wanted to do something evil...the police couldn't do anything? The postings on the 'net wasn't 'probable cause'? <--IANAL or Police
Would this start to venture in to the 'yelling fire in a theater' limit on free speach so to speak?
Just trying educate myself.
+10.
I do believe they are finding well articulated young folks and guiding them. You see the same faces far to often. The message is far to calculated.
We are under attack. Again. Some more. We are the easy targets. To make the real changes needed people will have to do some serious work on what/who they are. That will not happen.
That's actually what pisses me off most about it. Because we have to have this "national conversation about guns", which isn't a conversation at all, it's a lecture, we don't get to talk about the underlying problem. The underlying problem is not guns. It's that we produce people capable of doing this. Well. I say capable. We all have the same algorithms that Hitler, Stalin, Castro, Mao, Dylann Roof, etcetera. So we're all capable, given the exact circumstances which created all of those monsters. So I should say, "willing". So why has our society produced the circumstances in which more people execute those algorithms?
The answer to that question question isn't guns. Guns don't cause the circumstances under which those algorithms get executed by people, though they admittedly do make executing them more deadly. The point is, the answer to the right question will lead to a lasting solution. But we can't even ask the question, or talk about that because we have to talk about guns. The answer for every question, to them, looks like gun control. When all you have is a hammer...
The Russians don't need to "rile" us up.
We have our own media for that.
That's actually what pisses me off most about it. Because we have to have this "national conversation about guns", which isn't a conversation at all, it's a lecture, we don't get to talk about the underlying problem. The underlying problem is not guns. It's that we produce people capable of doing this. Well. I say capable. We all have the same algorithms that Hitler, Stalin, Castro, Mao, Dylann Roof, etcetera. So we're all capable, given the exact circumstances which created all of those monsters. So I should say, "willing". So why has our society produced the circumstances in which more people execute those algorithms?
The answer to that question question isn't guns. Guns don't cause the circumstances under which those algorithms get executed by people, though they admittedly do make executing them more deadly. The point is, the answer to the right question will lead to a lasting solution. But we can't even ask the question, or talk about that because we have to talk about guns. The answer for every question, to them, looks like gun control. When all you have is a hammer...
Control being the key word in all of this. Gain a better foothold on what we do. They are steering us towards the Euro model and this is a great opportunity to make great strides in that. I am starting to fear they allow the collateral damage to further agenda's and I am not in the tin foil hat crowd. So much of this crap is by design. PC thought control.
This one feels different to me for some reason. I can't really put my finger on why, it just does. I think we are going to find out exactly where the NRA stands on the 2nd amendment very soon. Again, i can't really explain my reasoning other than to say my gut is telling me that something is coming. I really hope i'm wrong.
I read an article where a major republican donor from Florida is not giving any more donations unless the politician supports an "assault weapons ban". I know it is just one person, but if anything will get a politician behind something, it will be money, or the threat of not receiving it.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/17/...onor-issues-ultimatum-on-assault-weapons.html
^ This. Lots of "do something," no clue as to what. Tough to have a conversation about the position that either doesn't exist or keeps mutating.
Long ago I heard a frightening statistic. In each population there is a certain percentage of crazy evil people. While the percentage doesn't change much, as the population increases the absolute number of crazy evil people goes up. It's only a matter of time before one is in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Fixing things is easy compared to fixing people. We generally like to do the easy stuff until there's no more easy stuff to do. At least that's what I've learned as an engineer for years. Seems to pretty well be analogous to issues like this as well.
...So so if this were organized; they would have a message. But they don’t. Just a sense of fear, a lack of understanding of the basic current reality and much anger.
“Change things” is a great campaign slogan, but the group asking for change is as splintered as the group defending the 2a...
Yeah, I tried finding that "huge" donor on the net worth list and could not find him....I got a feeling his donations are chump change compared to all the 2A donors. SO he gets 20-30 big spenders to join him, we have millions of donors waiting to contribute to the 2A fight. I don't think he wants to get into a who's bigger match. God, Guns and Guts made America, we will fight to keep all 3!
Fort Myers, 70, Founder/CEO, WCI Communities
In addition to being one of the premier developers in the state, Hoffman is the Bush family's main money man. He raised $1.7 million for the president's re-election campaign at a single tent party at his home last year. Hoffman has served as national finance chairman of the Republican National Committee for 2001 and 2003-04 and as finance chairman for Gov. Jeb Bush's 1998 and 2002 gubernatorial campaigns. Hoffman had a seat on the dais at George W.'s inauguration four years ago, and he's got the ear of the governor on issues ranging from water policy to state efforts to lure more retirees to Florida.
BIG difference between robbing a pharmacy and murdering our kids.
Tough to imagine that anyone see's this as similar?
Trump was for the "assault weapons ban" before he was against the "assault weapons ban".