3 Arkansas officers involved in violent arrest are identified

[DoggyDaddy]

My position was to wait for more information before I made my mind up but I guess that runs the risk of leaning toward an echo chamber, so I guess the standard we are supposed to go by now is based on what we have seen so far without waiting for the whole picture to develop.

So based on that he looks guilty and absent waiting for any further information we should already come to a guilty conclusion.

I think we're on the same page.

 

[jamil]

If we’re speculating, it looks like an elephant. If we’re claiming to know it’s an elephant, without having the missing facts, it’s really nothing more than intuition.

 

[KG1]

If we’re speculating, it looks like an elephant. If we’re claiming to know it’s an elephant, without having the missing facts, it’s really nothing more than intuition.

Howbout a duck? You know, like the old adage.

 

[jamil]

Howbout a duck? You know, like the old adage.

Oh. No. That's a foul.

 

[thunderchicken]

Oh. No. That's a foul.

Umm actually, I believe it's a fowl.

 

[AndreusMaximus]

Umm actually, I believe it's a fowl.

 

[jamil]

Umm actually, I believe it's a fowl.

Well, says the thunderchicken. Anyway, “fowl” was too obvious.

 

[Pepi]

Looks like a cut from the three stooges. You can hear the guy yelling, "I'll never toilet paper his trees again."

 

[Creedmoor]

Seems you can see both of his hands covering his head in most of this video.
With this video it looks like its just a beating and not trying to put handcuffs on him.
Is other video available?

 

[jamil]

Seems you can see both of his hands covering his head in most of this video.
With this video it looks like its just a beating and not trying to put handcuffs on him.
Is other video available?

It looks to me like they're not really working together much. The one guy kneeling with his back to us looks to me like he's trying to get the guy in a position to put cuffs on him. Like one of the INGO LEO explained, a useful tactic to get an uncooperative guy in cuffs is to apply pain to his backside so that his natural instincts make him cover the area with his hands. And then they can get him into a position to put cuffs on him. That kinda makes sense to me.

But only one guy seems to be focused on that goal. The guy who gets up is kinda working toward that? Just not very good at it. The head basher though. The only problem he seems to be aware of is that there's not enough broken skin on the perp's head, and that's the problem officer basher is exclusively focused on solving.

I'd like to see some visual evidence that he's even aware of the existence of handcuffs in this moment. He looks oblivious to anything that's not his current task, to damage the guy's head as much as possible with bare hands. The consequence of that is it makes the perp cover his head with his arms.

 

[thunderchicken]

Well, says the thunderchicken. Anyway, “fowl” was too obvious.

The irony of my screen name and the situation was there, I had to say it

 

[thunderchicken]

Seems you can see both of his hands covering his head in most of this video.
With this video it looks like its just a beating and not trying to put handcuffs on him.
Is other video available?

I understand the basic concepts of pain compliance to gain control of a resistor to get cuffs on them. But a downside is while it seems like it should be as simple as following direct orders to stop and show me your hands, natural instincts can be difficult to overcome (ever told an angry woman to calm down? Just kidding lol). Especially in a situation like this where you are being actively punched in the head. The head basher probably did more to create more resistance than to gain control of the subject

 

[Creedmoor]

I understand the basic concepts of pain compliance to gain control of a resistor to get cuffs on them. But a downside is while it seems like it should be as simple as following direct orders to stop and show me your hands, natural instincts can be difficult to overcome (ever told an angry woman to calm down? Just kidding lol). Especially in a situation like this where you are being actively punched in the head. The head basher probably did more to create more resistance than to gain control of the subject

It would be convenient to have the audio on that clip.

 

[Destro]

Regardless of how it turns out, I hope they get a good review on physical tactics. A lot of energy was wasted on ineffective tactics.

Not sure if it has been mentioned, but ineffective force can be ugly force. If an officer strikes someone with a baton 30 times, but is barely making contact, it LOOKS terrible and is ineffective.

If an officer takes a baton and goes Barry Bonds style and gives one good thigh strike and fractures the femur, the public just sees 1 strike and a suspect subsequently handcuffed. (Not advocating breaking bones)

What looks better on a video?

 

[AndreusMaximus]

Regardless of how it turns out, I hope they get a good review on physical tactics. A lot of energy was wasted on ineffective tactics.

Not sure if it has been mentioned, but ineffective force can be ugly force. If an officer strikes someone with a baton 30 times, but is barely making contact, it LOOKS terrible and is ineffective.

If an officer takes a baton and goes Barry Bonds style and gives one good thigh strike and fractures the femur, the public just sees 1 strike and a suspect subsequently handcuffed. (Not advocating breaking bones)

What looks better on a video?

I think reading your post really helped me formulate something that's been percolating in the back of my mind and really bothering me about the whole response to this video. It seems like so much of the response is based on looks. Yes, what those officers did looks pretty bad. But that kind of brings up a point, in my mind anyways, which is that these officers probably aren't the sort who are used to doing bad things and trying to get away with it all the time. For instance, if you know where nerves and pressure points are, you can literally torture somebody without leaving any noticeable signs. If officer head-basher was the type of slimy cop who regularly tries to "get even" with people who mess with him by taking out his anger on them, it seems like he could have easily done some stuff in the back of his cop car once the guy was cuffed and the camera had been "accidentally" turned off, and nobody would be any the wiser.

Now, I have no idea how much the sort of stuff I just described actually happens in real life, if at all, but I just can't help but feel like this was simply a cop who got a little too worked up and took things too far in a physical fight without really thinking about it, and while that is still obviously bad, it seems a lot less sinister to me that someone who would have done the same thing calmly and deliberately, while thinking about how to get away with it. At the end of the day, a cop who got a little hot headed and took things too far in a physical fight with a perp who assaulted and body slammed him after threatening to stab people, just doesn't seem to me to be the most horrifying and glaring example of police corruption and abuse of power.

Now, if it turns out that the guy they were beating up really didn't do any of that (beating up a cop and threatening to stab someone) then I'll be happy to eat my words. Absolutely it would be horrifying to think that police did something like this to an innocent man, and if they did, they should be justly punished for it. And I admit that it does look really suspicious how the cops seem to get all chilled out the second they realize they're being recorded, so I suppose there's a good chance things weren't quite how the cops claimed they were. But if the cops' story really is correct, and they've got video evidence to back it up, then if the worst thing that happens to officer head-basher is a stern talking-to and a slap on the wrist, or maybe being "guided" to a different career path (read: fired) if this sort of thing is a pattern with him, then I'm not going to lose any sleep over one perp who might think twice about physically attacking an officer of the law next time.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Obviously the reporting about the events that led up to that point could be wrong. It wouldn't be the first time. For example when we were told "hands up don't shoot" was real. And then we found out it was ********.

I think a more apt comparison/example would be Nick Sandmann aka the Covington kid. There was video that may have looked bad, but when more info came out it completely changed the narrative.

 

[jamil]

The irony of my screen name and the situation was there, I had to say it

I think if I had recognized the opportunity for you to say it and you did not say it, I’d have been disappointed.

 

[jamil]

I think a more apt comparison/example would be Nick Sandmann aka the Covington kid. There was video that may have looked bad, but when more info came out it completely changed the narrative.

And even then some people could not allow the more complete reality revealed in the complete video to alter their belief.

 

[Creedmoor]

I understand the basic concepts of pain compliance to gain control of a resistor to get cuffs on them. But a downside is while it seems like it should be as simple as following direct orders to stop and show me your hands, natural instincts can be difficult to overcome (ever told an angry woman to calm down? Just kidding lol). Especially in a situation like this where you are being actively punched in the head. The head basher probably did more to create more resistance than to gain control of the subject

I believe from what video I have seen not one of the three officers are interested in getting him in cuffs. It just looks like an angry beatdown with this video.

 

[jamil]

I believe from what video I have seen not one of the three officers are interested in getting him in cuffs. It just looks like an angry beatdown with this video.

It’s possible that we interpret what’s happening from our own understanding. I would give benefit of doubt to the other two officers other than they don’t seem to be good at their job. Officer head-smasher looks to me that he’s not trying to solve the problem of the perp not being secured. He has his mind completely on something else. But that’s what it looks like to me. I look to the INGO LEO for some explanation. And that talked me down from concluding they’re all overbearing their authority.