2 more of IMPD's finest arrested

[BehindBlueI's]

Can they get a diversion on a felony? At least without the prosecutor amending the charge to a misd first? According to the article they have both been charged with a felony. Converting to a misd yes, but diversion?

And I have no idea how promotions work in IMPD but is it normal for an officer to remain a patrol officer for 15-16 years?

Take a look at the IC code I put up. Low level felonies can be converted to "A" misdemeanors after a certain amount of time if the conditions are met. I don't know if level 5 can be converted like the old "D" could.

Its very normal to stay a patrol officer for your entire career. IMPD has a very flat rank structure. The vast majority of the department is made up of patrol officers (even most detectives are patrol officers by rank but not position). We don't have corporals or the like. I've never put in for a promotion process and don't intend to.

 

[phylodog]

Isn't this the sort of police work some were advocating after Officer Renn's murder?

Yes, it's exactly the type of police work some were advocating. All officers of the IMPD should ditch their uniforms for plain clothes, go get drunk at a bar and proceed to beat the hell out of anyone who gets on their nerves, all while on duty. You nailed it.

 

[forgop]

Yes, it's exactly the type of police work some were advocating. All officers of the IMPD should ditch their uniforms for plain clothes, go get drunk at a bar and proceed to beat the hell out of anyone who gets on their nerves, all while on duty. You nailed it.

I'm doubting this story would have ever been reported if the incident involved 2 officers being called to the scene by the bartender with the same results. He would have simply been "resisting" arrest.

 

[phylodog]

I'm doubting this story would have ever been reported if the incident involved 2 officers being called to the scene by the bartender with the same results. He would have simply been "resisting" arrest.

This story would have never been reported period if it didn't involved two off duty police officers. How many bar fights are there in Indy every day? 20? 30?

They screwed up and they'll pay for it, plain and simple. I find it entertaining (and particularly juvenile) that in spite of the fact that they've been investigated and arrested for their actions that some still like to create these threads with snarky comments like calling them Indy's finest and indicating that apparently the officers who don't do this sort of thing aren't tired of this crap. Serves to show that some have their mind made up and no amount of evidence to the contrary will change it. The night these two were involved in this situation there were over 1400 officers who weren't committing crimes but some are intent on holding them responsible regardless. These same people are quick to scream when someone places a label on gun owners.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

I'm doubting this story would have ever been reported if the incident involved 2 officers being called to the scene by the bartender with the same results. He would have simply been "resisting" arrest.

I think police officers being arrested will always draw media attention. But isn't that what people want? I mean, this was a no monkey shines investigation conducted out in the sunshine.

I don't think anyone is happy this allegedly transpired but I am very happy that it was treated as any other alleged battery and no hijinks are alleged. Rule of law during the investigation and arrest and now due process in court. I welcome it.

Can they get a diversion on a felony? At least without the prosecutor amending the charge to a misd first? According to the article they have both been charged with a felony. Converting to a misd yes, but diversion?

Just speaking hypothetically, the cases could be diverted. It is up to the CLEO, the Prosecuting Attorney. I don't know if a Special PA will come in here, but that can happen too.

At this point, any outcome is possible. Possible outcomes:

1. Nolle (case dismissed)
2. Diversion (withhold prosecution)
3. Defendant's motion to dismiss granted
4. Guilty plea with plea agreement
5. guilty plea without plea agreement
6. Not guilty at trial (bench or jury)
7. Guilty of some, but not others at trial
8. Guilty of everything, upheld on appeal.
9. guilty of everything, vacated or reversed on appeal.

 

[IndyDave1776]

The only thing I see here regarding IMPD in general is that IMPD knows how to deal with its own internal problems. I can remember a time when IPD was one of those departments you really didn't want to trust too far. It speaks well that in a 25 year period, Indianapolis has gone from a pack of problems in its police department to running an efficient, professional department. News releases like this do not bother me in the least, but rather are a source of comfort given that people who are not well suited to be turned loose with authority represent a certain percentage of the population and are not always easily identified before engaging in malfeasance. I would much rather see in the news that the PD knows how to deal with problems when they happen rather than crickets while knowing that problems are being ignored.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Not a negative on IMPD as long as they're actually fired.

I'm sure the guy was worthy of tossed from the bar, but any cop that flashes a badge while off duty to intimidate someone deserves to get told to GFY as far as I'm concernced.

If the reports are accurate, I'll believe the IMPD officers in this thread where they say they are finished.

And why do you say they flashed their badge to intimidate? Could it be they originally flashed a badge to inform the guy that they were police and that he was violating the law by refusing to leave? At the request of the bartender he was giving a hard time to.

The guy admits he was a Richard...but for two bullies to beat his ass and choke him out, then drag him outside and continue to rough him up, then calmly walk back and finish their drinks (bought by the fellow they just beat the crap out of) shows that they had nothing to fear because they are cops and more than likely had done it before.

Where did you hear that the guy is the one that bought them their drinks? And I wouldn't say it's likely they had done it before.

Its very normal to stay a patrol officer for your entire career. IMPD has a very flat rank structure. The vast majority of the department is made up of patrol officers (even most detectives are patrol officers by rank but not position). We don't have corporals or the like. I've never put in for a promotion process and don't intend to.

Thanks for the info.

I'm doubting this story would have ever been reported if the incident involved 2 officers being called to the scene by the bartender with the same results. He would have simply been "resisting" arrest.

Yeah that was the result when that punk (forget his name) was "assaulted" by IMPD a couple years ago.

I think police officers being arrested will always draw media attention. But isn't that what people want? I mean, this was a no monkey shines investigation conducted out in the sunshine.

I don't think anyone is happy this allegedly transpired but I am very happy that it was treated as any other alleged battery and no hijinks are alleged. Rule of law during the investigation and arrest and now due process in court. I welcome it.



Just speaking hypothetically, the cases could be diverted. It is up to the CLEO, the Prosecuting Attorney. I don't know if a Special PA will come in here, but that can happen too.

At this point, any outcome is possible. Possible outcomes:

1. Nolle (case dismissed)
2. Diversion (withhold prosecution)
3. Defendant's motion to dismiss granted
4. Guilty plea with plea agreement
5. guilty plea without plea agreement
6. Not guilty at trial (bench or jury)
7. Guilty of some, but not others at trial
8. Guilty of everything, upheld on appeal.
9. guilty of everything, vacated or reversed on appeal.

Yep as I posted above, there doesn't appear to be any attempt by IMPD to cover it up. It was investigated, they were arrested and charged.

I was specifically referring to 2. I thought diversion only applied to (most) misdemeanors and not felonies. And I think you missed one, 10. Guilty plea, judge takes plea under advisement followed by 1 if conditions are met or 4 or 5 if not.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

And I think you missed one, 10. Guilty plea, judge takes plea under advisement followed by 1 if conditions are met or 4 or 5 if not.

I did not. The case is battery not OWI or dope.

Under Chissell, withhold judgments are only permissible where Indiana law allows--dope under 35-48-4-12 and OWI under Title 12.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I'm doubting this story would have ever been reported if the incident involved 2 officers being called to the scene by the bartender with the same results. He would have simply been "resisting" arrest.

Yup. They would have hidden behind the blue line of silence. No way it would come to light, officers would testify against them if appropriate, and it would make local media.

Officers testify deputy used excessive force | WISH-TV

Oh, right. All those things just happened in Indiana.

Ceres officer testifies in excessive force trial | Crime | Modesto Bee

Oh, and in California.

Illinois State Police investigate excessive force claim in Lawrence Co. | WTHITV.com

Oh, and in Illinois.

Nope, other than going through such arcane research techniques like Googling "excessive force" and clicking the "News" tab on Google, and seeing what happened in the last 24 hours of news feed, it seems like its impossible to find out about incidents where on duty officers are accused of excessive force and it makes the news.

Yeah that was the result when that punk (forget his name) was "assaulted" by IMPD a couple years ago.

Brandon Johnson?

 

[halfmileharry]

This seems like a bigger deal than it actually is.
I understand it's LEO in the news. But...
It's still just a drunken arse getting his stupid arse kicked.
Maybe I ran the bars too long and have seen too much. I really tried not to mess up because I know consequences are just around the corner when I did.
IF you run the bars you've got to expect a less than exemplary lifestyle.
Smacking down a cop's badge is.....well, pretty friggen stupid. Stupid games....stupid prizes....Stupid should hurt....
Seems lucky the dumbarse (civilian) didn't get hurt worse than he did.
Flame on!

 

[Timjoebillybob]

I did not. The case is battery not OWI or dope.

Under Chissell, withhold judgments are only permissible where Indiana law allows--dope under 35-48-4-12 and OWI under Title 12.

Thank you for the correction.

Brandon Johnson?

I believe that is the punks name. Yeah no media attention over that one at all was there?

 

[halfmileharry]

Thank you for the correction.



I believe that is the punks name. Yeah no media attention over that one at all was there?

He behaved like a Johnson

 

[Timjoebillybob]

This seems like a bigger deal than it actually is.
I understand it's LEO in the news. But...
It's still just a drunken arse getting his stupid arse kicked.
Maybe I ran the bars too long and have seen too much. I really tried not to mess up because I know consequences are just around the corner when I did.
IF you run the bars you've got to expect a less than exemplary lifestyle.
Smacking down a cop's badge is.....well, pretty friggen stupid. Stupid games....stupid prizes....Stupid should hurt....
Seems lucky the dumbarse (civilian) didn't get hurt worse than he did.
Flame on!

Yep drunken brawl, and the results should be the same as any. Which from the alleged circumstances of this instance should be prosecution for felony battery. It doesn't matter if they were LEO or not. And according to the story, the guy thought the badge was fake.

 

[halfmileharry]

Yep drunken brawl, and the results should be the same as any. Which from the alleged circumstances of this instance should be prosecution for felony battery. It doesn't matter if they were LEO or not. And according to the story, the guy thought the badge was fake.

I made a few poor decisions drinking as well. Even got married once. Punishment enough

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I made a few poor decisions drinking as well. Even got married once. Punishment enough

Thank God I never did anything irreversible while drinking. In the military and immediately after I drank like it was my job. Dried out in '04, never got back into it. I've got the left overs of a 12 pack of Leine in my fridge right now from a bbq in May. For some reason I like to buy new wines to try, then they sit in the wine rack and I never get around to trying them. I can't think of the last time I had more than 2 drinks in a day. Usually a beer at a restaurant and that's my drink for the week.

 

[halfmileharry]

Thank God I never did anything irreversible while drinking. In the military and immediately after I drank like it was my job. Dried out in '04, never got back into it. I've got the left overs of a 12 pack of Leine in my fridge right now from a bbq in May. For some reason I like to buy new wines to try, then they sit in the wine rack and I never get around to trying them. I can't think of the last time I had more than 2 drinks in a day. Usually a beer at a restaurant and that's my drink for the week.

almost 15 years for me. Horrible. Lost all my friends, ugly women, and hangovers. Life's not the same since I quit.

 

[Denny347]

Some of us will tout the line "I'm the police 24/7" or similar when it comes to our authority but act like they are not the police when they do something stupid off-duty. Like it or not, the public sees us as police ALL the time, on duty or off. It might not be fair but it is reality. I can go to another state or even another country and get into trouble and the headline will have "LEO" attached to my name. They see it as a part of our identity. You know the same reason that you go to a party and are the only one introduced by their profession. So act accordingly. It's really not hard. I'll hear whining about how they should be able to get **** faced (responsibly) if they want. Fine, it's a free country but don't come crying to me when you make ONE bad decision and throw all of this away. I'm friends with Serban, as much as any co-worker is my friend as I do not hang with anyone but my family off-duty, and he has always been a soft spoken, quiet, funny guy that I enjoyed working around. I am saddened by his choices. If he would have remembered the rule "act as though you are on-duty" maybe he would not have made such poor decisions. Now he has to answer for them.

 

[public servant]

Brandon Johnson?

Did he move back to Chicago or is he in prison?

 

[Denny347]

Did he move back to Chicago or is he in prison?

Neither, they live in Lawrence. In fact, he is not the one we need to watch anymore. That honor has fallen to his younger siblings.

 

[Libertarian01]

To All,

A long, long time ago
In a country far, far away
A police officer could give a drunk a ride home
A sheriff could force the kids to scrub the building they painted
A beat cop could dispense a good arse whooping to a turd that deserved it
And TV turned off around midnight.

Too damn many things have to be done "official" now...

Regards,

Doug