Would you be justified using deadly force here?

[Flyguy]

Myself I doubt I would have done anything.

INMO, if this type of retaliation happened more often we wouldn't have people doing this kind of crap. JEEZ... the woman jumped the counter! She deserved a beatdown. He shoudn't have continued to beat her after the fact but he sure had a good reason to hit her to begin with. This is our street mentality that is out of controll. It will only get worse if we continue to treat the "bad guy" with kid gloves.

I would only hope that this low life will think twice before trying something like this again.

She was probably pizzed because they wouldn't "SUPERSIZE" her fries because she thinks she "HAS A RIGHT TO IT".

 

[ckcollins2003]

Can you just shoot someone 15 times even though the first 2 shots ended the threat?
I am basing my assumption that they were unarmed by the fact they had no weapons in their hands during the attack. Someone is unarmed until they arm themselves by putting a weapon in their hands (or going for/drawing a weapon I suppose). Yes no one could be positive they were unarmed, however they still were not posing a threat once their heads were cracked open and laying on the ground.

Actually yes, you can shoot someone 15 times if they continue to get up after being told to stay down and no, they are not "unarmed until a weapon is present in their hands". They are armed if they have a weapon anywhere on their person or even in their purse. The weapon doesn't have to be readily availalbe in their hands.

The one thing we don't know from the video is whether or not the woman was still threatening him while trying to get up. She has already verbally and physically abused him then hopped over the counter to continue the hits. The guy may be a POS but he still has the right to defend himself and his manhood by not letting 2 women beat the crap out of him.

Should he have stopped? Probably, but would you stop if someone assaulted you, you defended yourself and they continued to get up? The threat isn't stopped until the person posing the threat is no longer conscious.

 

[esrice]

Just to be clear here, I am not talking about pulling a gun on the women. I am talking about being a bystander and pulling on the guy beating the women.

Pulling a gun? No.

This would be the PERFECT opportunity for a bystander to give the guy a bad case of spicy face with some OC. It could cause him to stop his attack without killing anyone, and give everyone around a chance to disband rather than stand around gawking.

 

[g00n24]

Actually yes, you can shoot someone 15 times if they continue to get up after being told to stay down and no, they are not "unarmed until a weapon is present in their hands". They are armed if they have a weapon anywhere on their person or even in their purse. The weapon doesn't have to be readily availalbe in their hands.

The one thing we don't know from the video is whether or not the woman was still threatening him while trying to get up. She has already verbally and physically abused him then hopped over the counter to continue the hits. The guy may be a POS but he still has the right to defend himself and his manhood by not letting 2 women beat the crap out of him.

Should he have stopped? Probably, but would you stop if someone assaulted you, you defended yourself and they continued to get up? The threat isn't stopped until the person posing the threat is no longer conscious.

I didn't just say shoot some 15 times...yea that may be needed. I said shoot them 15 times even though the first 2 shots stopped the threat. Then no you can not continue shooting them. Once the threat to your life is gone then the justifiable use of deadly force ceases to exist. Obviously if someone continues to get up and come after you the threat isn't gone, but that is not what I was alluding to.

 

[45fan]

Pulling a gun? No.

This would be the PERFECT opportunity for a bystander to give the guy a bad case of spicy face with some OC. It could cause him to stop his attack without killing anyone, and give everyone around a chance to disband rather than stand around gawking.

But then Mcds would have to defend a lawsuit from Wendys for serving spicy chicken!

I actually like this idea, but given the reaction of the other patrons of the establishment, might have opened a person up to being targeted for an attack on themselves.

 

[ckcollins2003]

I didn't just say shoot some 15 times...yea that may be needed. I said shoot them 15 times even though the first 2 shots stopped the threat. Then no you can not continue shooting them. Once the threat to your life is gone then the justifiable use of deadly force ceases to exist. Obviously if someone continues to get up and come after you the threat isn't gone, but that is not what I was alluding to.

Correct, but that is what happened. According to the news article she continued to try and get up, thus the threat was not stopped.

The video doesn't show that she was still trying to get up, nor does it show him actually striking her. The counter is in the way to make a justifiable clause in saying the threat was stopped before he stopped hitting.

I hate to assume so I won't. I'll just go by what the article says and say he kept hitting her because she was trying to get up.

 

[esrice]

I actually like this idea, but given the reaction of the other patrons of the establishment, might have opened a person up to being targeted for an attack on themselves.

That's always a possibility in situations like that. But at least it would've given that screaming lady more options than just yelling at the guy.

 

[Flyguy]

As I look at it again you can see her trying to get up again. You can see her head pop up briefly above the counter and that is when he struck again. I really can't say I blame him from what you can see. The other patron was screeming because she wasn't aware of what was going on behind the counter. Just my opinion. I just have a big problem with low lives like this.

I am usually a compasionate and caring person,... but if I had been the cashier I can't help that think that I would have wanted to beat the crap out of her myself for what she was doing. I mean she slapped him and then jumped the counter and went after him. Can we say adrenaline rush here.

Was he supposed to ask her to kiss and make up and give her a free happy meal?

 

[Dwight]

I think they got what they asked for. They were verbally abusive, then assaulted him physically. They pursued him to continue the attack when he tried to retreat to the back of the store and he came back with something he could use to defend himself with. If they hadn't jumped the counter and pursued him, but left when he went to the back of the store, it would have ended there. He told them to stay down and they refused. He hit them when they continued to try and get up. If they had remained on the ground, I believe he would never have swung again.

I feel no pity for the ones who started it. I feel sorry for the guy who is going to get railroaded for protecting himself.

I would not even consider drawing on him, much less firing upon him. Just my

+1 Cashier needed a bigger stick and nobody would have to worry about them trying to get up!! Jumping the counter was the break-point in this situation and they got more than they bargained for. Hope the cashier gets to move on with his life with minimal hassle.

 

[45fan]

That's always a possibility in situations like that. But at least it would've given that screaming lady more options than just yelling at the guy.

Reading your response warms my heart, knowing that there are still good, well meaning people in this world.

I am just the pessimist in this situation, having seen too many times where a well meaning person is thrust into a bad situation after trying to so the right thing, only to have the chain reaction of events make it not worthwhile to get involved.

Possibly the screaming woman on the correct side of the counter did know the other women being beaten for attacking an employee, and that could change the situation to make getting involved a good decision. However, if I were present, and only seeing what the video shows, I would not feel comfortable with any more involvement than speaking with the officer(s) that respond to the call. In today's society, anything more only opens myself to liability in a lawsuit.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

What a pitiful display. How are people raised to believe, when they become adults, this is a proper way to behave?....sad; just sad.

To throw in my 2 cents worth--another thing to consider in addition to those already mentioned--innocent bystanders. With all those people in the restaurant, I don't think pulling a gun would be prudent here--no matter who started it. IMO

 

[printcraft]

Duh Duh Duhh Duhhhh Duuuhhhhh, I'm Clubin' It!!!

 

[mrortega]

Duh Duh Duhh Duhhhh Duuuhhhhh, I'm Clubin' It!!!

Off topic but I think your wardrobe is deteriorating to the point that your avatar is going to go viral any day now.

 

[Jubba]

I am sincerely concerned for our society when a man can be supported for savagely beating 2 women.

 

[j706]

Yea jump over that counter acting all big and bad. You do something like that then you get what you get. I am guessing they will be thinking twice before doing that again.

 

[RoyalTenenbaum]

If I was a juror and presented this video the following would be my opinion; the sex of the customer is irrelevant. The customer presents aggression, violates the secure area of the establishment, it is unclear but should be assumed that someone taking these actions is armed. It is clear that harm is meant, the employee is justified in halting the attack on the establishment, his fellow employees and himself. The assailant in the course of being halted by the employee disappears from view, at this point I must assume that the employee continued to feel that unless further action was taken danger was still imminent from this individual that does not respect personal or physical boundaries. At no point does it appear that the customer attempts to retreat, cease violating the physical boundary, or surrender. It is reasonable to assume any movement that may occur behind the counter and out of view of the camera is in furtherance of agression, such as reaching for a nearby weapon or one on her person. The fact that it was ascertained ex post facto that the customer was unarmed is irrelevant as the employee was predicating his actions on the information had at the time as well as the circumstances presented him. From a moral standpoint, I find it hard to fault an individual who defends himself, his fellow man, or place of work from an agressive yelling counter hopping assailant.

 

[j706]

If a woman decides to act like a man, she will be treated like a man.

 

[Caleb]

Would not pull my firearm...I think she started it however he should have stopped instead of continuously beating the tar out of her

 

[4x4]

No, I would absolutely not draw on or shoot the cashier. He was defending himself. I would rather him kill the 2 women, than me to kill him, because they are the ones instigating it, and in my mind, got exactly what they deserved.

 

[BBSparkle]

http://youtu.be/ZWIV5WcIck8
Here is a link to a story about it: Shocking Video: McDonald’s Cashier Beats Woman With Rod | Video | TheBlaze.com

Obviously the women started the argument and were the first to get physical. I don't think the guy has a self-defense case after he kept beating them with the rod when they were down. I don't even know if he would get off if he stopped when they went down, considering they were unarmed women..
So, would you shoot in this situation? Obviously no one is seriously trying to stop the guy, and he keeps going after other employees tell him to stop. However, the women started the altercation. Im thinking I would draw on him and if he keeps going shoot considering the women are completely defenseless and at risk of serious bodily injury/death. It's just a gray area on this one for me considering the victims were the ones that started everything.
As a twist, would you shoot if it was 2 MEN that went after the cashier and were getting beat down? I don't know if I would.

I don't see how you or your gun fit into this situation at all. Looks like natural selection working itself out.

If for some reason I accidentally found myself at a McDonald's and this was happening I would just and leave.

If anything I would draw on the ***** that kept screaming "STOOOOP!"... Even through the computer that was an assault on my ears, and was obviously doing nothing to help the situation except make her feel she was involved. I hope they all go to jail.